Salary survey

[Carlos Camacho]

Yesterday, I had a "review" at my new job. It's my second review. At the first review, I was told of my weak points, and asked to improve them. If I couldn't, I would be let go. At yesterday's review, the good news was that my contract was extended to next year. However, the president said that due to my "output/level", my salary would be re-adjusted.

Salaries are reviewed once a year it seems, and increases will be based on my "output power." Anyways, the decrease is $600 a month. That brings me to "aroundish" $2,000 a month, which is 1/2 of my last job at the electric company (where I worked at for 7 years.) I do realize that figure would be a dream job to many people around the world.

I'm now thinking of what I should do. On one hand, I feel that at 36, I should be at a much higher salary (based on salary.com, what my friends make, what I want in life, etc.) I should also be in management or within reach of it. (I was a manager at age 22 in the US). At my present job, management is impossible because (a) there is only one position to move into (b) that guy won't EVER leave because no one else will hire him (c) me not being Japanese (ie I would need to be 100% fluent in speaking and writing -- an impossible task.)

Skill wise, I moved from marketing (which was mostly B.S.) to web design now. (ie mockups in Photoshop, slicing, HTML). The company I work at doesn't do dynamic sites -- all static, as they outsourced any dynamic stuff. I feel I am the "key" into getting them into dynamic sites and into the year "2006." ;) Heck, I had to explain a simple benefit of using a short PHP snippet to display the current year for a copyright tag, rather than have the staff update dozens of pages by hand! So, while I might make them 500% more productive, and bring their designs up a couple of notches, they seem to be satisfied with the "status quo."

OK, back on topic. Web related work I've done has all been "hobby" sites. aka iDevGames. So, I suppose what is holding me back from leaving Japan now is the fact I don't have a strong portfolio, and that I won't be able to compete with a teenager that knows AJAX, Ruby on Rails, and all the newest buzz words. So I tell myself, "Grin and bear it for 1/2 a year. Hone your skills, build a portfolio, and then go back home."

Of course the other way to think is, "Go back home. Get in at the ground level, learn from my 'peers' and enjoy climbing the ladder." What I mean is... At my present job, everything that I will "pick up" will be on my own. I don't feel there is much to learn from "peers." (Accept for 'Japanese web design.') I do feel that I've learn a good bit of things on my own these past few months though. I can certainly pin-point the mistakes the web team at my company is making. (Yes, I have submitted proposals that went on deaf ears.)

My wife, bless her, isn't a very motivated person. So, with the salary cut, she isn't saying, "Don't waste your time! You can do better! Let's get out of here!" So, the choice is mine, which can be good and bad (only married guys will understand.)

In the back of my mind there is a, "dream plan." The dream plan has me staying in Japan at present job for a dozen months or a year. Build my skills and start getting freelance work on the side. Then partnerup with my Japanese friend (he is a coder) and start our own design studio. I would be happy doing that.

I welcome all advice. However, salary talk might only be helpful from people who live where I might move to (i.e. back home to New England.... initially.)

About salary. I enter "web designer" and select CT at salary.com. I see about 65k a year. Is this BS? That is like 3 times more than what I make! (What I made at my last job!) I think the term "web designer" has a wide range though. From "using Front Page (shudders) to savvy dynamic site development." So I think that figure must be off.
I also see various companies mention 401K and dental, etc etc. That is also something to consider. Bottomline though, without having a portfolio, I'm a lame duck IMHO. But how to work on a portfolio when I get home each night not wanting to touch iDevGames, iDevApps, or other web work (aka from doing it all day at work)?

I think this must be the third post I've made on this topic in the last two years. I apologize! I need the community's help to tell me what to do! :lol:

Because if I can't sort out my career problems, I won't ever be able to sort out those postmortems. ;)

Cheers,

[KittyMac]

Why not a little of both? Create a portfolio with what you have, and then apply for positions online. The majority of the time you'll have a phone interview first, at which point you can gauge whether it is worth leaving your current job/life behind. At the very least, you might learn what areas of your portfolio need work and can focus on the next 6 months on improving it.

Also, try and spin your intimate knowledge of Japan to your advantage. Surely some businesses out there need to deal with Japanese businesses on a regular basis, and having a technically competent person who can communicate would be a plus.

[igame3d]

$600 a month deduction?!?! And they want you to work? They are joking right?
What a bunch of slave drivers and monitor thieves too!!!

Look for jobs on craigslist (http://www.craigslist.org/) in the area you would return too, if the market seems good dump Japan like a used kleenex.

Its not like you can't return there later on.

Seems like Japan has you running in circles, a change of pace, change of scenery would do you good. And your parents aren't going to live forever, go home and get to know them again now that you're all grown up.

Want a job teaching English in Taiwan? I could send some contacts your way?
The "house" we are going to move to in four years is sitting empty right now, its rather convienant to downtown (like right on top of it), and LARGE.
My father in law would love you for your athletic experience, he was Taiwan's champion hand ball coach for decades. Let me know.

[akb825]

From your previous threads, it appears that even if you wanted a different job, most people wouldn't take you since you're foreign. To put it bluntly, that's a crap salary for a web programmer. I say you just head back to the US where people will treat you fairly and try to get a job. Even if you have to climb the ladder again, you'll likely be earning a good deal more than $2000/month. (cutting your salary by nearly a quarter is just :shock: :shock: You should leave just for that, even if your salary was better in the first place)

[monteboyd]

I voted for going home to the U.S. because I agree with what has been said above and just generally because it seems like you have become unhappy with living in Japan over the last year or so.

But then you just have to deal with taking the wife out of her home country. ;)

Also, I have no idea what the web job market is like in New England, but I reckon you could score a job here in Australia if only you were allowed to work here! :)

[kelvin]

Um... $2000/mo??? wtf? that's like $12.50/hr. You make more than that working a couple years at a supermarket stocking shelves here. Please tell me that pay is not for 40hrs/week.

Contract work? dwtf! Contractors are supposed to get paid higher gross wages! This is outrageous!

If you want AJAX pointers, I'll learn you up. Just ask.

[LaRue]

I make 11.51 an hour right now as a teaching assistant for C/C++ and that is with only one semester of formal C/C++ training. You can earn a whole lot more here doing basically anything else. I made $2,000 a month cleaning glassware at a lab during the summer. Come back Carlos!!

[Fenris]

I voted Other. I'm saying that the question you asked is the best answer you need. If you're even thinking along those lines, you're not supposed to stay. No reason in the world to stay. Cutting back your wage is done for two reasons: they want you out, but they want you out on their conditions. Make no mistake, you can expect to be sacked shortly anyway.

I say: you've made your Japan trip. You're definitely richer for it. Like KittyMac said - firsthand experience with Asia is a definite plus, considering the emerging markets there. Relocate. I'm not necessarily saying the US, but unless you want to live in Japan (as in, not only work in Japan) you should try some other part of the world. Either, you go home, or you go somewhere else. South Africa? Moscow? Germany?

Though, don't just jump ship. Start planning the transition today. Expect to be kicked out within six months or something. Build your portfolio at work, learn new stuff at home. Since they don't let you work smart at your current job your skills are wasting. So, start looking for jobs now. When you find something, quit. And don't accept a counter-offer. (http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060123/mencher_01.shtml)

[Chris Ball]

I won't be able to compete with a teenager that knows AJAX, Ruby on Rails, and all the newest buzz words.


I don't think you need to know the popular nonsense to do well in an interview. I never have. I find the people that hire need to be reminded about what's important and what isn't during an interview, so that's what I do. The job never matches the requirements anyways. Focus on what you have and show that you're adaptable to any problem.

If you're 35 and can come-off as shrewd and capable, then no teenager can compete with you.

(Yes, I have submitted proposals that went on deaf ears.)


I can't abide that sort of thing. If they aren't reasonable and don't allow you to exercise your skills with dedication then find a place that's more to your liking.


I see about 65k a year. Is this BS?


It is not BS, not by a long shot.


In the back of my mind there is a, "dream plan." The dream plan has me staying in Japan at present job for a dozen months or a year. Build my skills and start getting freelance work on the side. Then partnerup with my Japanese friend (he is a coder) and start our own design studio. I would be happy doing that.


Then that is my advice.

I left a job where I was making many times your salary + ipo stock and went to Hawaii to walk on the beach. I'm glad I did, I was getting stress related disorders from working under a PhD EE who programmed like a 12-year-old and listened about as well as my cat. Spin the wheel.

[Zwilnik]

It's definitely worth looking out for a better job. The 'privacy compliance' rubbish was a pointer and it generally looks like the company you're working for is suffering from Dilbertism. Generally that means that there's no long term future there, either they'll go bust, fall badly behind their competition or get bought out. Either way it'll be the staff that get it in the neck.

You're in the situation now though where you have a job paying the bills (hopefully), which means you can do a less panicked job hunt, which usually means you can probably find something a bit better than when you're job hunting to survive.

As far as salary etc. is concerned, it's all relative. It's not what you earn compared to everyone else, it's what you earn relative to the lifestyle you want and how much it costs you to live where you are. Moving back to New England might reduce your cost of living such that you can actually enjoy life more on the same salary as you have at the moment, or even less. Then again, the cost of living there might be more. I'd consider other areas of the US or other parts of the world for the cost of living vs salary vs have they got a football team test.

When I left Argonaut to set up Strange Flavour I effectively ended up with about half the pay I'd had at Argonaut. However, because we'd moved from the super expensive London area to Newcastle, I still had all the facilities, but at a much lower cost (5 bedroom detatched house for cheaper than a 2 bedroom flat for starters). End result much better standard of living despite less money.

[gatti]

I'd suggest that you attempt to pitch yourself into some form of IT/marketing/web management position for a Fortune 1000 company. From your descriptions, you seem to have the strategic knowledge of tapping into technology to deliver information. Combining direct web knowledge, graphic skills, marketing, and people management can most definitely help you score a position where you do a mix of those things and don't need to dive directly into each one. To do a mix of those 2-3 things can most definitely bring you into a 50-85k range (in U.S dollars that is.). Also, if you have Mac knowledge in basic network and system setup, you can also lobby those skills since graphic studios always love the graphic/techie person.

Another thing to note...If you make the move back to the U.S., the beginning salary for web developers is 35k.

I think for career purposes, since you aren't native to the language and writing of the country that you reside in (core elements for most business transactions), it may continue to limit your growth. It may be better to go to a more "English" business atmosphere. Where is your "legal" residence?

[funkboy]

Definitely look to moving out of there... your dollar amount has my eyes hurting. I am graduating with a B.S. in Computer Engineering and plan to make no less than $50,000 in the midwest. Maybe ~$45,000 if I stay in a smaller (~100,000 people) city.

You can always create a portfolio while you are working your day job - I would follow your "dream plan" if possible, since that *is* your dream, and why not stick with your dreams? Your wife seems supportive of that course of action, too.

I have never heard of an employer reducing an employee's salary in the US... ever. Not unless there was some REALLY weird circumstance, or the company was bleeding money and everyone had to help out. Only then, everybody took a pay cut, not a single person.

Look for an out.

[gatti]

If you want to build a web portfolio, I'd focus on assembling screen captures of all the sites that you've worked on and then design your own site (3-5 pages) to represent and support your graphic and technical web dev skills. This will be your Carlos Camacho web design selling point. Also have a PDF of your resumé available on the site so that people can download your full information.

[BeyondCloister]

As soon as you stop enjoying what you are doing it is time to move on. You only have the one life so why waste it doing something that does not make you happy?

I know many people who have suffered ill health due to being stuck somewhere they do not enjoy.

Just don't forget the golden rule though - don't leave until you have something else unless you have cash reserves to live on for at least 6 months.

[Carlos Camacho]

>Where is your "legal" residence?
He he.. I have permanent residence status in Japan. My passport is US. I haven't been back to my home state in years (CT). So long, that my driver's license can't be renewed from Japan anymore -- I need to go to the DMV for a photo.

>Only then, everybody took a pay cut, not a single person.
I confirmed yesterday that it was only me. :(

>As soon as you stop enjoying what you are doing it is time to move on.
Wise words, along with other good feedback from everyone. I suppose I am a type of person that once is "settled in", I tend to drag my feet in changing. More so after I got married I suppose.

This morning, I was thinking that when I was in my late teens, I made more than right now! Along with everyone's advice, that has shaped my action plan.

My wife's VISA will take several months to clear. We need to bring cats home with us, and they can't travel during very hot weather. So I'm thinking, stay at present job since $2,000 is better than $0 sitting at home. Although it might be peanuts, any work I do can go towards future employement (ie portfolio). Around June-ish, I should resign. Then I can spend the summer packing and sending resumes home. I'll then come back in Sept/Oct. Sadly, I said the exact same thing last year but kinda chickened out and stayed. I hope everyone yells at me enough this time so that I have no choice. ;)

Of course, I could speed up my action plan if I manage to build a suitable portfolio sooner.

One thing is for sure. There is no sense working beyond 6:30 each day if this job has no future. In other words, what is the point to work more if I'll see a measly pay increase after 1 year! So, if I go home when the whistle blows, I'll have from 8pm to 12pm-ish each night to work on my personal stuff.

>I'd suggest that you attempt to pitch yourself into some form of IT/marketing/web >management position for a Fortune 1000 company.
I could use you as my agent ;)

I'm going to need to search for a company that can work with me to create a good resume. Any links/recommendations?

[BeyondCloister]

Start sending those CVs off now. Do not wait until the summer.

The whole job hunting process can take months (month or so before they get back to people after getting CVs, waiting for people to work 3 months notice etc.) so any time saved now means less time with no income further down the line.

Also if someone shows interest now it may provide that motivational boost you need.

If your CV ends up on the desk of someone who wants you then they will easily wait 6 months for you if you have skills no one else has.

Remember that your age is an asset in the eyes of some employers so do not worry about going up against kids with no real life experience.

I know what you mean about it being hard to make that jump and leave your comfort zone, even if that zone is not so comfortable. I had the (mis)fortune of being forced to make that move out when a former employer went bust without actually going bust. A pay cut is one thing, but being told you are not getting the last month's pay and losing over £6000 is much more painful.

[funkboy]

Your age is not a negative- it is a great benefit for many companies. I can say in my job search I've seen a lot of jobs I'd like to try, but then I see a "3-5 years minimum experience" requirement for the position, and then I back down. Change 3-5 to 7-9 sometimes (!).

Definitely start getting that CV together and sending it out - it's never too soon to start.

[kelvin]

Curious: what's everyone's thoughts about Curriculum Vita vs. Resumé? What about CV vs. Euro Vita?

[igame3d]

All of those are awful. Everytime I write "Resumé" I see Ree-zoom, CV sounds like something you get from unprotected sex, and naturally EV is the third installment of a cool video game.

I think next time I write one I'm going to label it "Captain's Log"

[DoG]

I think next time I write one I'm going to label it "Captain's Log"

:D I am sooo going to steal that. My prospective employer has the right to know about my level of sanity. Not hygiene, though, that is an entirely private matter.

[sealfin]

Pardon my ignorance, and apologies for the slight thread derailment, but what is a Euro Vitae? :sneaky:

[geezusfreeek]

That much of a cut in salary is absolutely ridiculous. Leave now.

I would say more, but I have to leave now.

[Dan Potter]

I have to second (third? fourth? :)) what everyone else is saying. It sounds like that company wants to get rid of you and is coming up with excuses to do so. In my experience, Japanese culture tends to be very non-confrontational, so that's exactly the sort of thing you could expect. Privacy compliance? Pay cuts? Sheesh. I'm also with you on the xenophobic aspect of the culture. When I visited there for two weeks I got a bit of culture shock just from the different surroundings and lack of English, but more than that from the people themselves. A lot of the younger generation love foreigners (Americans and Germans in particular, it seems), and many people were very friendly and helpful to us. But my friend and I got a lot of dirty looks and borderline rudeness, too.

And $2k a month is monkey change for any kind of technical work. I know secretaries that get paid more than that. So that's definitely not a good sign if they're dropping you down like that.

The US job market is pretty crappy right now but it's getting better again. I'd say that knowing dynamic stuff like PHP and having direct experience with Japan and Asia in general is a big plus though. I also agree with what was said above about your age. Sometimes people don't want that wild youthful exuberance; they're just looking for someone solid who can learn new things as needed.

That said, I'd give credence to checking out other places in the world too. Maybe stick to places that have more of an English influence so you're not right back at the bottom of the language barrel again, but as long as you have an environment that allows it, might be good to take advantage... You could also consider other parts of the US. That can be as different as another country sometimes too (one reason I love Portland :)).

Good luck with it all, and remember not to throw up your hands and say "I'm old!!" No way man, 36 is just in time for your second childhood! ;)

[Leisure Suit Lurie]

I can picture Carlos re-enacting 'Falling Down' in the office. If so, I hope we can watch the company surveillance footage.

[sacha]

Carlos: We're looking for a Project Manager. The pay is definitely WAY better than 2k/month. Plus, we're definitely NOT a xenophobe company. (How could we, when most of our customers are foreingers...)

[Carlos Camacho]

>Japanese culture tends to be very non-confrontational,
That is correct.

>And $2k a month is monkey change for any kind of technical work.
I'm expecting I'll next be ask to wear a monkey suit.

>No way man, 36 is just in time for your second childhood!
Cheers, good to hear that.

>I can picture Carlos re-enacting 'Falling Down' in the office.
I'm trying to avoid going to McDees and ordering the breakfast 1 minute after they change their menus. (Actually, since I left the US, I almost never eat there.)

>Carlos: We're looking for a Project Manager.
Me? Living in Swiss? With all the chocolate temptation? Tell me more. :love:

[Zwilnik]

I chucked in a £40k a year job to set up my own company at 36. You're never to old to think "screw this, I can do better" :)

[kelvin]

Pardon my ignorance, and apologies for the slight thread derailment, but what is a Euro Vitae? :sneaky:
It's a condensed form of a CV. Usually contact and primary information is listed in a matrix on the first page along with your photo. It's also a shorter/faster read for potential employers.

[igame3d]

along with your photo. It's also a shorter/faster read for potential employers.


CREEPY in so many ways.

[FreakSoftware]

Step 1: Increase your skills.
Step 2: Find a job elsewhere.

[aarku]

You forgot Step 0.5: Move in with Seth in his parents' upstairs.

[Carlos Camacho]

>along with your photo.
Not to make Japan look even more terrible than I have for the past few years (it isn't as bad as I sometimes make it out to be) but you'd cringe at Japanese resumes.

* They have to be hand written. (The ability to write readable kanji characters can say a lot about an employee)
* Your mug shot MUST be included -- passport size, and it must be recent
* It isn't uncommon to list your schools going back to elemetary/primary!
* I recall needing to list my family members and what they do!

Since most people use resumes in Japan after college -- get a job, and then NEVER need one again, resumes tend to be all fluff. That is, Japanese college students don't do ANYTHING in four years (ie internships) so they have almost nothing of substance to put on their resume.

BTW, here is a kicker. So my salary goes down. Suddenly a new young 'programmer' is hired a few days later. :mad: On the bright side, I've recently been 'teaching' the young woman next to me some basic CSS. I showed her how to use Firefox's extension to quickly check the links, alt tags, divs, etc. on a page she is making. She was 'blown away.' (She was gonna check EVERY page line by line! :cringe:) Teaching can be very satisfying sometimes. :) (Especially if the student is cute ;) )

Cheers,

[DoG]

I don't really know what all the fuss is about with the photos, it's pretty common place in Europe, too. Handwritten stuff is being phased out, especially in technical jobs, where people are not expected to write by hand in any kind of way another person might be able to make sense of.

Carlos, being who you are, what we know of you, I can only encourage you to try something completely different, create a company, go eat Swiss chocolate, something like that. It's really never too late, even if it's not easy at first.

[igame3d]

I don't really know what all the fuss is about with the photos, it's pretty common place in Europe, too.
Discrimination by race, color, or sex or personal aesthetic preferences before they even read your resume, thats the fuss.

They look they say "Oh damn wrong color, he's out", just one example.
They look they say "Oh she's cute, she's in, everyone else I can ignore", another example.

[sacha]

If the resumes at my company had to be hand written, the support guy wouldn't have gotten his job. Reading notes by him is like a lesson in applied cryptography. ;)

My resume was rather short, having had only one job after(during) university. Just a short timetable showing how long I did what, a table with my skills and experience plus the usual personal data. Created a pdf of it and the rest was done by email. If I can't apply to a job as a programmer/something similar by email, then most likely the company isn't for me anyway.

[DoG]

Discrimination by race, color, or sex or personal aesthetic preferences before they even read your resume, thats the fuss.

They look they say "Oh damn wrong color, he's out", just one example.
They look they say "Oh she's cute, she's in, everyone else I can ignore", another example.

Not to be racist, but that seems a very American thing to say, always being over-concerned about political correctness. If my future employer does the hiring by that standard, I don't want any part of it anyway. The photo is just there to put a face to the name, and it is definitely not bad that people will know what you look like when you go for an interview.

As far as discrimination based on looks is concerned, they can as well do that when you are interviewed.

[igame3d]

Not to be racist, but that seems a very American thing to say, always being over-concerned about political correctness. If my future employer does the hiring by that standard, I don't want any part of it anyway. The photo is just there to put a face to the name, and it is definitely not bad that people will know what you look like when you go for an interview.

As far as discrimination based on looks is concerned, they can as well do that when you are interviewed.

Well your not being "racist" because American isn't a race, did you think we were? Don't believe your TV.

The thing is you will never even get a chance at an interview if the person
is influenced in anyway by people's looks before reading the qualifications.

At least getting your foot in the door lets you overpower their possible racist or sexist mindset with some fast talking and pheremones, and then no matter how gruesome you are, you still might have a chance.

Unless you are applying for a position as a model or in some form of public entertainment intended to sway sexually impressionable clients, looks should never be a factor.


As for Sacha's comment about applying by email, damn straight!
When I see "fax" I'm like, whoa, what is this company stuck in 1990?
I read an article back in '93 how the fax machine being forced into the market when they had the technology for email totally held back internet adoption for years. Faxin Bastards!

Almost as bad is when I see send resume to xxxx@yahoo, or xxxx@hotmail, or
xxxx@AOL.com. Those are completely untrustworthy email addresses, especially for sending personal information to.

[Leisure Suit Lurie]

At least getting your foot in the door lets you overpower their possible racist or sexist mindset with some fast talking and pheremones, and then no matter how gruesome you are, you still might have a chance.

Gruesome can pay off, too. If they are terrified you might eat them at their desk.

[DoG]

Well your not being "racist" because American isn't a race, did you think we were? Don't believe your TV.



No need to be an *******. You know damn well what is meant by my statement. If you need to resort to insults to sway an argument, if you can't take part in a civil discussion, go see a therapist. You have a problem. You have been doing a lot of name calling here recently, and this does it.

...
At least getting your foot in the door lets you overpower their possible racist or sexist mindset with [...] pheremones [...].
...

That would mean you overpower the racist mindset by abusing the sexist mindset of the employer? Countering the sexist mindset with pheromones? That sentence lacks sense.

I'd like to do a bit more name calling and insulting here, but that is your domain.

[gatti]

Um DoG... I think igame3d was just trying to be witty/funny with that comment. It clearly wasn't meant to be a direct attack against you in any shape of form.

[Chris Ball]

The proper way to hire a technologist is:
1) collect resumes and remove the names
2) check the applicant's history
3) administer a written test
You meet the person you hired when they come in the door.

I suggested this at the last place I worked and they all found the idea very interesting. Not interesting enough to do, though.

[igame3d]

The proper way to hire a technologist is:
1) collect resumes and remove the names
2) check the applicant's history
3) administer a written test
You meet the person you hired when they come in the door.

I suggested this at the last place I worked and they all found the idea very interesting. Not interesting enough to do, though.

So you remove the names, call their phone number and say "hey you come in for a test", and their wife shows up confused?
You missed steps:
4) call in three prospects, have them meet the crew and chat
5) crew decides who they like the best

Meshing with the group is important.
I've noted that companies that don't do this and base employment solely on the employer interview usually get someone that
A) can't do the work
B) creeps everyone else out

Might not matter so much in the cubicle world.

[Zwilnik]

The proper way to hire a technologist is:
1) collect resumes and remove the names
2) check the applicant's history
3) administer a written test
You meet the person you hired when they come in the door.

I suggested this at the last place I worked and they all found the idea very interesting. Not interesting enough to do, though.

You forgot step 0) throw half the resumes in the bin. You don't want an unlucky technologist do you ;)

[Chris Ball]

4) call in three prospects, have them meet the crew and chat
5) crew decides who they like the best

Meshing with the group is important.
I've noted that companies that don't do this and base employment solely on the employer interview usually get someone that
A) can't do the work
B) creeps everyone else out

I would like to see a group of creeps and geeks at work. In school I was sometimes made to work with people I would not normally choose, and I was surprised often enough. And the folks in the chess club were not they types to do well in an interview.

Creeps, geeks, nerds, nay-sayers and pimply fussbudgets would have added much-needed substance to many a meeting I've attended. After a diet of polished, smiley, lawyer-esque baloney, one gains an appetite for their nasal suggestions. I'd like to see a crew selected from just steps 1-3.

[igame3d]

I would like to see a group of creeps and geeks at work. In school I was sometimes made to work with people I would not normally choose, and I was surprised often enough. And the folks in the chess club were not they types to do well in an interview.

Creeps, geeks, nerds, nay-sayers and pimply fussbudgets would have added much-needed substance to many a meeting I've attended.
Not those creeps.


Polished, smiley, lawyer-esque baloney
THOSE CREEPS
The people who ooze slimey car dealeresque non-personality.
shivers

[MattDiamond]

I don't see any valid reason to require a photo on a resume, unless the career in question is something like acting or modelling. It opens the door to bias, deliberate or otherwise.