Leopard predictions?

[Nevada]

I have a bit of a situation that I need to make a decision on soon. I am doing some undergraduate research and I need to finish an application by the beginning of May, but I'm having some troubles with Python libraries not building on Mac OS 10.3.9. My supervisor just informed me that I can go ahead and order an upgrade to the latest version (which I can already get a $50 student discount for) and MIT will reimburse me. I also know that Leopard should be coming out soon. The question is, should I even bother waiting for it or should I just settle with Tiger? I'd hate to order it only to have Tiger come out the next day (kinda like how my mother bought a PPC iBook only to have the Intel ones come out the next week). Any opinions on this?

Nevada

[akb825]

It may be a few months until it's released, so I say go for Tiger now, especially since you'll be reimbursed. Though first I'd look into finding a solution with getting your python libraries to build apart from an upgrade, since that would be the best solution.

[MarkJ]

Tiger won't be released until after the school semester is over

[skyhawk]

Tiger won't be released until after the school semester is over

tiger has already been released.


Anyways, X.4 is pretty solid. I like it. Leopard seems like it is in its "almost done" phase. But... *shrugs* I couldn't give you a date.

[OneSadCookie]

Leopard seems like it is in its "almost done" phase.

Clearly you've not used it...

General consensus seems to be that June 11 (WWDC) will be the release of 10.5.0, because that's about as late as they can push it, and only the clinically insane will upgrade before 10.5.1 in September or so.

[Taxxodium]

Call me clinicaly insane then. In fact, what I think I'll do is just partition my HD and have a Tiger and a Leopard installation, but I'll probably just install Leopard anyway.

As long as the new Xcode Tools and Dashcode work they way they should I'm all happy.

But yeah, WWDC is probably the release date for Leopard GM.

(PS: You could always try and get Leopard from "other sources", just to test things...)

[ferum]

Xray alone looks worth upgrading for.

[Willem]

General consensus seems to be that June 11 (WWDC) will be the release of 10.5.0, because that's about as late as they can push it, and only the clinically insane will upgrade before 10.5.1 in September or so.
What's the problem?

[Taxxodium]

What's the problem?

Like with any other software: Leopard will have growing pains

PS: I do not own a copy of Leopard so don't ask. For more info I suggest you get the (free) videos at http://developer.apple.com/adconitunes

[AnotherJake]

PS: I do not own a copy of Leopard so don't ask...
Even if he did, don't bother asking anyway. Those who actually have a copy of Leopard are under NDA not to talk about it in the first place.

[AnotherJake]

Call me clinicaly insane then...
iDevGames visitor/clinically insane -- same<->same.

[Duane]

what's X-Ray?

I'm excited about spaces and the objective-c garbage collection. Obj-c might just replace ruby in my heart for my favorite language.... it has speed, ease of use, and incredible APIs on the mac.

Prediction? new user interface look (think of: the transparent black interfaces of itunes controls, iphoto controls, etc.) Possible? probably not. It'll get all the eye-candy developers pissed because they have to rework their artwork.

Prediction 2: multi-touch displays! not possible at all, but think of the possibilities! Think of what Nintendo has done with the ds and the wii....

BTW, from what thinksecret has leaked so far, it looks really buggy....

Oh yea, 64 bit support! huzzah! I don't much care about the actual 64 bit stuff, but for those who know how much of a nightmare 32 bit assembly is, they've fixed many problems with that AND kept the 32 bit binary compatibility. For more information, see the different 64-bit modes: Wikipedia's article on x86-64 processors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Operating_modes)

Ok, fourth edit. This is quickly becoming my longest post! :wacko:
It doesn't look too good for PPC64 users; they may actually run slower, thought they do have extended memory support. Reason? take a look at the two example 'hello world' assembly programs from IBM's site:
32bit: li 0,4 # syscall number (sys_write)
li 3,1 # first argument: file descriptor (stdout)
# second argument: pointer to message to write
lis 4,msg@ha # load top 16 bits of &msg
addi 4,4,msg@l # load bottom 16 bits
li 5,len # third argument: message length
sc # call kernel

64bit: li 0,4 # syscall number (sys_write)
li 3,1 # first argument: file descriptor (stdout)
# second argument: pointer to message to write

# load the address of 'msg':

# load high word into the low word of r4:
lis 4,msg@highest # load msg bits 48-63 into r4 bits 16-31
ori 4,4,msg@higher # load msg bits 32-47 into r4 bits 0-15

rldicr 4,4,32,31 # rotate r4's low word into r4's high word

# load low word into the low word of r4:
oris 4,4,msg@h # load msg bits 16-31 into r4 bits 16-31
ori 4,4,msg@l # load msg bits 0-15 into r4 bits 0-15

# done loading the address of 'msg'

li 5,len # third argument: message length
sc # call kernel

Now since ppc is a risc processor, you have to load all 4 words of the address manually, and cisc processors may do this anyway at microcode level, so this may or may not hurt the move to 64 bit ppc users any more than the x86 users. perhaps some processor guru (osc?) can make this clearer.

[skyhawk]

resolution independency

[ferum]

what's X-Ray?


The debuging app. seen here (http://developer.apple.com/leopard/overview/)

[ferum]

Prediction 2: multi-touch displays!

That would be beyond awesome. The amazing possibilities that would create are beyond total comprehension.

[Nevada]

Well I just placed an order for Tiger and it should be here in a few days. Thanks. I would have been waiting like an idiot had I not known it would take that long...

[diordna]

Looks like if you want to modify Xray, you have to write in D. That's what they get for using open-source, I suppose.

[ferum]

D looks cool

[Skorche]

I looked into that a bit ago actually. They aren't talking about the D programming language that was designed after C++. DTrace has it's own scripting language apparently also called D.

At least that's what the Wikipedia page says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTrace).

[Duane]

Is it coming with a D compiler? that's awesome....

[Skorche]

Is it coming with a D compiler? that's awesome....

You posted about the same time I did. Read my comment above.

The D programming language only recently hit 1.0. I would highly doubt that Apple would bundle D yet.

edited: The redundant department of redundancy, "The D programming language only recently hit 1.0 recently."

[Duane]

how disappointing... it's a very interesting language... sort of like a weird cross between c++ and java. Compiled, but without multiple inheritance... see their website for more information.

[Malarkey]

Hm. I guess I should install that Leopard update at work so I can start checking out all this stuff :)

(my boss recently signed up for the paid ADC membership or something so they sent us Leopard DVDs)

[leRiCl]

Doesn't the latest XCode already have the D compiler?

[OneSadCookie]

No, thankfully.

It's not open-source, either, which means it's unlikely ever to be included.

D's design philosophy appears to be "let's take all the bad bits of C++ and all the bad bits of Java, mush 'em together, and see if that makes a good language!"

'cos of course, that'll work out well.

To be fair, it does have some nifty stuff, like the pre/post-condition assertions, but nothing you can't do other ways in better languages.

[Duane]

Well, there's always gdc, which is just the d extensino to gcc, which I use. But I like its java-esque implementation of multiple inheritance: it doesn't have any. It uses interfaces instead.

[Shunter]

Back on topic... with Leopard coming in October now, does anyone else think they're working on some amazing new unseen feature? You'd think a year after the preview would be enough time to wrap up, half the team there or not. Or is it just me wishing...

[OneSadCookie]

You and the entire Mac community along with... but I don't think it's likely. They've never been secretive with features before, and I don't really see that changing this time. I personally think they've just bitten off more than they could chew.

You'd think they'd've learned from MS that long software development times are bad. I really hope they go back to a 12 month cycle for 10.6.

[arekkusu]

Keep in mind we have four times as much (ppc ppc64 x86 x86_64) to develop, test, debug now.

[igame3d]

You'd think they'd've learned from MS that long software development times are bad. I really hope they go back to a 12 month cycle for 10.6.

This is not "long software development" this is "put the OS on hold so we can release the product that will really make us money."

Catering to the picky whiney nerds has only got Apple 6% of the market, catering to average customers with disposable income and who are easily manipulated by trendiness has gotten them 80% of the downloadable music business, 1/3rd of their income.

If they release the bug ridden Leopard in June with iPhone then their customer service departments and retail sales goons will have too much on their hands and customers will get irate waiting for service, repairs, and excuses for poorly made or incendiary products.

Whats to learn from Microsoft exactly?
MS MILKED XP for six years, Bill Gates is still the richest man in the world, they have the number two game console, and are creating a new generation of developers with their "toy", one of the founders of the company has $300 million in cash to blow on joy ride to space.

If anything the lesson to learn from MS is "just take the money and deny there are any problems with the product, the people who complained are eventually ignored and gullible enough to buy the next thing you sell them"

[PowerMacX]

I think this (http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/?p=828) sums it up very nicely. :)

Anyway, so far I think Leopard's biggest selling point will be third party apps that depends on the new APIs like Core Animation and/or are being migrated or developed from scratch in Obj-C 2.0. Feature wise in and on itself I haven't seen anything in Leopard that would WOW(tm) me yet.