D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 - Digg DRM debacle...

[Joseph Duchesne]

Yeah, I guess I just couldn't let iDevGames miss out on the fun.
If you're still wondering what's going on, just check out digg.com. Every single story on the front page.

It's a rather curious reaction if you ask me. Impressive as well. I suppose that (gasp) DRM can't be perfect.

In other news I don't think I've ever ripped a DVD. I think I tried once. It just takes too long. I can't begin to imagine why someone would pirate an HD-DVD movie. What kind of idiot goes out and spends $4000 on his TV, $800 on his player, $1500 on his burner and then pirates a $20 movie? Or downloads a movie that is only marginally better than the 700MB divx file, but is instead 24GB.

What are your thoughts on Video DRM?

[diordna]

This supports my hypothesis that social networking sites bring out the idiotic passion in everyone. We don't have anything to get excited about in real life, and when we do, we can rarely do anything meaningful about it. To compensate, we have the internet - we find things to get excited about, and it's easy to demonstrate your excitement, and feel part of a group at the same time. Digg's current state is an example of this. There's really no reason for everyone to get all excited - it's really not that big of a deal. So one site feels more conservative than others, who cares?

On another note, the key itself isn't just for copying/ripping HD-DVDs. It allows them to be played in Linux, which I think is the most important.

[Joseph Duchesne]

My Linux machine only has a 20GB harddrive. No HD for me :P Nor does it have a DVD drive, let alone more, and the processor is only A PIII 500 :D... so there is no way that I'll ever really use this. I like blueray better anyway. Could be the java support on all players :D

[aarku]

I think the reaction is due to how Digg handled it. They removed the story (stories?) without telling anyone and users found out on their own. Then they responded after the event. And they're sponsored by the people who are irked about the leaked key.

The moral of the story is that administrators of community sites (like iDevGames) need to communicate properly with their users when they need to do something out of the ordinary or risk alienation.

-Jon

[AnotherJake]

I just think it is insanely funny that once the `secret code' was discovered to have been discovered that the so-called proprieters of it actually attempted to make it un-discovered again.

There are some great points made about the size of the movies and the cost of the equipment vs. twenny bucks. I have the equipment and know-how to rip DVDs with relative ease and I don't bother with it. Heck I only watch movies once anyway, so what would be the point? Rental is the way to go for me. I have been involved with recording HD content through a firewire port on a cable box, but that is actually clearly within my legal rights here in the US because of a law that congress passed a few years ago. My point in saying this is that we never bothered with it again because of the size and hassle, even though that was completely legal. At some point in the future the bandwidth and computing speed and storage will be up to par for it, but that's a long way off IMHO. I really think the industry is making much ado about nothing on this one.

[Nevada]

NetFlix is fine for me... I have ripped DVD's before, but they were just borrowed from a relative so I could watch them later at my own leisure. I find that their massive file sizes make them cumbersom to backup, so I ditched them a long time ago...

[lightbringer]

The moral of the story is that administrators of community sites (like iDevGames) need to communicate properly with their users when they need to do something out of the ordinary or risk alienation.

Right, when users post content that's either illegal or can clearly get the website in legal trouble (whoever is paying their bills aside) the administrators should have to stop and explain their actions that protect the site.

For a revolt, I would have expected something that made sense (IE removing stories that bashed their advertisers as opposed to this silly legal stuff).

[Marjock]

Can somebody who's navigated the "OMG HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS, INTERWEBS" of Digg explain what the actual situation is? I find myself clueless.

Thanks,
Mark

[Joseph Duchesne]

Basically a hex code that lets people play and rip DRM'd HD-DVD movies was found. Some people posted it on Digg. It got really popular and then disappeared. They posted again. It got extremely popular and then disappeared again. They posted on some major news sites at what was happening and within two hours every single story on the Digg frontpage had the hex code. It has been pointed out that the Digg guys have come out strongly in favor of HD-DVD on their videos and appear to be in the pay of the HD-DVD group.

Some people think that this is a major win for online democracy, but I have no idea what they're talking about or who put the silly idea of the net being a democracy in their head.

[Hog]

A lot of movies sort of have copy protection issues and don't run from the inserted DVD. You need to copy them to your harddrive (with a ripping tool, they have a broken file system). Lately for me even apple's DVD Player.app (which can usually play those DVDs) complained about a DVD having a broken region code when it actually should be the local one (and that DVD was already older). I've not tested any HD-DVDs tough but I believe they should at some point get similarly broken.

[ERaZer]

silly idea of the net being a democracy in their head.

I think one of the reasons I advocate for Internet and think its such an important invention is because of the reason that it is so free. A democracy, no, but a way to express freedom of speech etc, yes.

[Najdorf]

Hold your ground! Hold your ground!
Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers,
I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me.
A day may come when the courage of men fails,
when we forsake our friends
and break all bonds of fellowship,
but it is not this day.
An hour of wolves and shattered shields,
when the age of men comes crashing down,
but it is not this day!
This day we fight!!
By all that you hold dear on this good Earth,
I bid you stand, Men of the West!!!

[Zwilnik]

With all those number sequences flashing around the net I've been having Lost flashbacks.

[backslash]

I don't see the internet as a democracy - it's more like millions of tiny dictatorships (with a few socialist republics hanging around trying to change the world).

[AnotherJake]

Here's a good story (http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=299) about it that I stumbled upon this morning, which pretty much sums it up in short.

[sealfin]

I may be misunderstanding the situation here, but - to simplify - it seems as though they built a platform the security of which was predicated on a secret key - a key which had to be distributed along with a player...

Then they expected this security through secrecy to stand the test of determined attack? :blink:

Now, the key is out in the open, the security of that platform has been completely compromised as they can't put the secret back in its box, and there is no way in which they could correct the situation - to change the key for new players would then break all the players and discs produced using the old key, and would only grant them a little time until the key was cracked again...

Whilst the security granted them $time_since_platform_introduced free from piracy, that period was also the period in which the fewest players would be sold, as only the technophiles would consider purchasing a player (and possibly all new discs), as everybody else already had and has a perfectly serviceable and considerably cheaper alternative; I wonder how long and how much money the security of that platform took to develop, and whether the little time free from piracy justified the cost...

A reasonable summary of the situation? Or am I wrong in some regard?

Edit: from a quick glance at this (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070213-8837.html) ars technica article, it seems I'm wrong in the regard that no single device key being cracked will completely compromise the security of the platform (if it is a key to a software player), but implies that volume keys can still be cracked for duplication by organised pirates.

Edit II: I have changed the title of this thread to remove half the string - just in case - and because you only need to enter the last few digits in Google at the moment to get pages and pages...

[Joseph Duchesne]

Thanks for the edit. I suppose the thread is less of an inside joke now :)

[PowerMacX]

http://www.fayerwayer.com/up/2007/05/09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0.jpg

[WhatMeWorry]

This is completely off topic, but I'm sincerely curious here: how does one pronounce Duchesne?

Is it something like Dew-Kane?

Back to programming.

[Joseph Duchesne]

Actually it's pronounced Doo-shane by most english speaking people. It is the misspelling of the french "du chêne" (I'm sure french speaking people would know how this is actually pronounced, but I really don't) or "of oak".

[Duane]

Well, I use my linux box as two things: my workstation and my media center. Unfortunately, the multimedia center that has a DVD drive, might be illegal if I hypothetically had installed libdvdcss on it. The real battle here is NOT for ripping dvds, per se, but so that people who buy dvds can watch them in the fashion that they please.

[nich]

it's hr/management trying to create technology. has never and will never work.
as for copying movies, i'm of the belief that once the 1's and 0's are on MY computer, then i am allowed to do whatever i want with them. it oesn't even matter how they got on my computer. they are now mine and i will argue to the ends of reality that i didn't steal anything. logicians will see it my way, morons see it the other.

[maximile]

...it oesn't even matter how they got on my computer. they are now mine and i will argue to the ends of reality that i didn't steal anything. logicians will see it my way, morons see it the other.

"It's just ones and zeroes, so I can download a copy of <insert idg member's game here> and register it with a pirated serial number. Once it's on my computer, it's mine." Doesn't sound so good to me.

There are plenty of arguments against DRM, but what you're saying isn't one of them. Those guys developed/discovered this crack because they wanted to play HD-DVDs on their Linux machines, which seems fine to me. But then you get loads of diggers (or maybe a very vocal minority) who see this as an easy way to get free HD films, trying to justify themselves using your argument. I hope you're one of the ones who wants to do cool things with the discs you've bought rather than some guy who just doesn't want to pay for films.

[Duane]

Also, what If I want to watch my legally bought hd-dvd on my ipod? I should be able to rip it!

Obviously, it will be used for piracy, but you really can't help that. The MPAA, or whomever is blame, is just slowing themeselves down in the long run. I'd have switched to HD-DVD already if they sponsored backing up/ripping dvds for protection against scratched discs and so I can watch on my ipod! I don't want to buy the same movie twice!

[Bjoernke]

Own your own integer, just by visiting a site, Use the DMCA, DRM and YMCA (no wait not that one) to secure your number now:

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1155

[Nevada]

Awesome. You are looking at the proud new owner of "7A E2 13 37 9C 87 9C 09 4F EA 47 71 EE E1 FD 04"

I'm so excited!

[PowerMacX]

:sneaky:
Awesome. You are looking at the proud new owner of "7A E2 13 37 9C 87 9C 09 4F EA 47 71 EE E1 FD 04"

I'm so excited!

Sorry, but your number contains a circumvention device for my encrypted content (I use ROT13):
"7A E2 13 37 9C 87 9C 09 4F EA 47 71 EE E1 FD 04"

So I hereby demand under the DMCA... :ninja:

[Nevada]

I claim that you encrypted something under my integer, and hence you are infringing on my ownership of "7A E2 13 37 9C 87 9C 09 4F EA 47 71 EE E1 FD 04".