A Greener Apple? How about greener powerplants?

[Nevada]

Given our discussion about the environmental concerns surrounding Apple, I believe Green Peace should be direct their efforts to a more devastating cause. Check out this video to see what I am talking about:

http://techtv.mit.edu/file/94/

Something must be done...

[AnotherJake]

They forgot to mention that you can actually be poisoned by accidentally consuming a large amount of that compound too. It's pretty serious stuff to be messing with. Not to mention the extensive damage to our infrastructure it can cause, such as buckled roads and pipes because of its unique chemical phase changing characteristics when exposed to tempuratures below zero degrees Celsius. How many millions of deaths has it contributed to in traffic accidents? I mean, the list just goes on and on...

Oh geez, and I totally forgot about the hundreds of millions of gallons of the deionized version of it that are used each year in the manufacturing industry. And as a gas it can contain dangerously high tempuratures, and is highly corrosive when in the presence of metals and oxygen. Heck, pure sodium will explode on contact with it! Wicked stuff man...

[Leroy]

Given our discussion about the environmental concerns surrounding Apple, I believe Green Peace should be direct their efforts to a more devastating cause. Something must be done...

Well that video is fine, but you seem to be trying to shift the focus away from all of the horrors which Apple has inflicted on our planet over the years. I read a recent article in The National Scientific Review(or something with a similar sounding name), which estimated that due to their enviornmentally unsound manufactering practices, Apple is responsible for around 3% of global greenhouse emissions yearly. This is truly horrible and Apple should be held responsible.

[lightbringer]

Well that video is fine, but you seem to be trying to shift the focus away from all of the horrors which Apple has inflicted on our planet over the years. I read a recent article in The National Scientific Review(or something with a similar sounding name), which estimated that due to their enviornmentally unsound manufactering practices, Apple is responsible for around 3% of global greenhouse emissions yearly. This is truly horrible and Apple should be held responsible.

Could you find a link or more information on this?

[Zwilnik]

I read a recent article in The National Scientific Review(or something with a similar sounding name),

like the National Stuff we made up Review?

The entire computer and phone industry might account for 3% of the greenhouse emissions annually, but Apple only accounts for 4-5% of the computers sold and even iPods are only 1% of numbers of mobile phones being manufactured, let alone other electronic gadgets.

[Hog]

also dihydrogen monoxide (or hydrogen hydroxide or whatever) accounts for up to 70% of the greenhouse effect.

[AnotherJake]

Just for the record, in case someone might think I was making stuff up, or they weren't paying particularly good attention, everything I said above is actually TRUE. You'll have to research the other stuff if you don't believe me (for whatever reason), but here are some links about the poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication), and a particularly good one about the sodium explosions (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/011.2/index.html). I highly encourage anyone who doesn't know who Theo Gray is to check out the one about the sodium, and be sure not to miss the videos near the bottom!

[Bjoernke]

the Dihydrogen Monoxide stuff is quite funny err... i mean serious! :ninja:

It does remind me of a (real) TV documentation I saw recently. The commentator was proud to report the first long term storage of dangerous chemicals in Europe (or was it worldwide?). They made sure to test every barrel which was coming in, to assure that they aren't producing deadly gas or are prone to explosion (Notice that they made sure to point out that the compounts are all toxic if digested).
Then they stored the metallic barrels in big heaps down under the earth, in a salt mine. I highly doubt that they test every barrel in combination with every other barrel for being explosive or gaseaus poisoning, yet they say that most of the barrels will be leaking within a few decades...

[PowerMacX]

I thought it was funny when I first heard about it... for about 3 seconds. Then I saw it used in several TV shows to basically ridicule every and all environmental groups. If you tell people "substance X has the following dangers: y z w - Please sign a petition to establish controls on its use" most people WILL do so. But if you are only mentioning half the truth (for example, 'forgetting' to tell them than it's indispensable for life) then the 'environmentalist are a bunch of wackos that don't know what they are talking about' doesn't follow.

(Specifically I'm talking about a Penn & Teller's episode where they asked random people on the street to sign a petition to ban Dihydrogen Monoxide and most did)

[Cochrane]

Irrational fears of chemistry, however, are a true problem. For instance, I recently heard on the radio that somewhere fertilizers "containing chemistry" leaked out, and that this was dangerous. There are also enough people who say "I hate chemistry, I want all my food to be natural". This combination of strong beliefs and lack of information is never good, and I think people pointing this out with those "dihydrogen monoxide" claims are actually helping.

As for the sodium explosions, those can be a lot of fun if done with little amounts of sodium and in a controlled environment (for example, a classroom). Of course, not every teacher is brave enough to actually try that.

[Nevada]

In fact, dihydrogen monoxide is extremely reactive (explosive) with most alkali metals (including Lithium, Sodium, Potassium, Rubidium, and Cesium). If people hate chemistry so much, they should just stop living (literally). Anyway, what's wrong with organic food? They use dehydrated cane juice instead of sugar, who can argue with that? :p

[AnotherJake]

Irrational fears of chemistry, however, are a true problem. For instance, I recently heard on the radio that somewhere fertilizers "containing chemistry" leaked out, and that this was dangerous. There are also enough people who say "I hate chemistry, I want all my food to be natural"...
That reminds me of a time when I visited a local health food store. The first thing I saw when I walked in was a table of "All Natural Vitamin C". I mean, how effing rotten do you have to be to try to dupe people into buying ascorbic acid? Ascorbic acid is ascorbic acid is ascorbic acid. But nooo, this one's natural ascorbic acid.:mad:

It also reminds me of when California banned phenol because a baby had accidentally ingested some which her father had in his home office (I guess he was a chemist). So anyway, some activists brought this to everyone's attention about how dangerous it is and it got banned. Of course, you still find it everywhere in California but nobody notices. It's the active ingredient in Chloraseptic, among many other things. Idiots...

[AnotherJake]

Actually, on second thought, I don't know why the all-natural ascorbic acid thing really bothered me; I've seen all-natural dihydrogen monoxide sold for over two dollars a liter.

[ERaZer]

Actually, on second thought, I don't know why the all-natural ascorbic acid thing really bothered me; I've seen all-natural dihydrogen monoxide sold for over two dollars a liter.

Yeah, and that is crazy, especially in countries with good (natural ;)) dihydrogen monoxide access in peoples homes!

[PowerMacX]

Yeah, and that is crazy, especially in countries with good (natural ;)) dihydrogen monoxide access in peoples homes!

Well, on a recent trip to Brazil I bought a bottle of "natural" dihydrogen monoxide to avoid using the even more expensive ones from the hotel minibar. Being particularly bored that night, I decided to look at the "ingredients" printed in the label before opening it...

It included radiation levels. :blink: Not only that, but it claimed it was good for respiratory problems. The minibar ended up with a +1 surplus of dihydrogen monoxide bottles when I left. :sneaky:

[Fenris]

Regarding high-priced water bottles: you're not paying for the actual water, but for the service of having it made available to you there and then. When you're dried out to dust and looking at a 1h+ train ride home, a coupl'a bucks for that sweet aqua commune might be money well spent. ;)

[AnotherJake]

... Must not be as popular in Europe as it is here, where people buy it at every corner convenience store and gas station just to `look cool' and plug up the landfills, never mind being thirsty. We're crazy here! Whatever happened to good ol' water fountains?

[Fenris]

Texas? I rest my case. :P

[AnotherJake]

Touché :blush:

[lightbringer]

... Must not be as popular in Europe as it is here, where people buy it at every corner convenience store and gas station just to `look cool' and plug up the landfills, never mind being thirsty. We're crazy here! Whatever happened to good ol' water fountains?

The water fountains? They're maybe 20 feet from the water bottle stocked-fridges.

So what makes sense? Buying water bottles and filling them up. The cola makers are quite pleased people and our culture in the US aren't into this - but with the 'green' movement, I hope this is what many will push for (because it's further wasteful to ship around all this water).

[igame3d]

Whatever happened to good ol' water fountains?

Lead, Chlorine, Hepatitis, AIDS, E. Coli, flouride, pesticides, herbicides, dead bodies
take your pick or "Scare of the week" or corporate sponsored contamination of the hour.

Water filtration plants have absolutely no means to measure or clean all the chemicals mankind puts into the water supply daily. They have a set of maybe 30 tests and cleaning methods for bacteria and solids, after that its russian roulette.

England tested their tap water positive for Prozac a few years ago, Spain had quantities of cocaine in their tap water, and in St Louis a decade or two back, the river went on fire. mmmm

[AnotherJake]

The water fountains? They're maybe 20 feet from the water bottle stocked-fridges.
Haha! That's totally true...

Lead, Chlorine, Hepatitis, AIDS, E. Coli, flouride, pesticides, herbicides, dead bodies
take your pick or "Scare of the week" or corporate sponsored contamination of the hour.

Water filtration plants have absolutely no means to measure or clean all the chemicals mankind puts into the water supply daily. They have a set of maybe 30 tests and cleaning methods for bacteria and solids, after that its russian roulette.
Well, you may be entirely right about that, but some local media coverage I've seen over the last few years contradict what you're saying for the most part. They say city water supplies are heavily regulated, vs. bottled water companies are not. Plus, most consumers are completely unaware that much of the bottled water sold locally is bottled locally FROM CITY WATER SUPPLIES in the first place! Ahhh!

They said that many bottled water companies simply filter the water, add some ozone and minerals for taste, then bottle it and sell it (at a massive sales margin no less). There is no attempted removal or regulation of any of those nasties you mentioned since the water source they use is already regulated. Whatever, just some more double mind-screw irresponsible marketing crap we deal with as citizens here. Just like the `all natural vitamin C' example I gave earlier if you ask me.

[PowerMacX]

Dasani anyone?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3550063.stm

Of course, you could buy 'real' mineral water (well, at least here you can), just make sure you know which spring (http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/55/1/57?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=%28brazil+AND+radioactive+AND+mineral+AND +water%29&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT) did it came from. :sneaky: