What is the best 3d program?

[Joseph Duchesne]

I have Bryce and I think it is definately worth the money I paid.(edu: $100can.) I want a really good renderer and a really good modeler. I think Strata has the best render short of Maya but what should I buy for moddeling. I am currently using amapi 4 wich is fine for some modeling but I need something that can quickly turn a blueprint to a 3D model. I think meshwork is good for that but is there anything that is better? what is the best moddeler and what is the best renderer in your opinion?

[Carlos Camacho]

What is your budget and what did you want to model?

[jamie]

There are lots of great programs out there, but like carlos said what is it you want to model exactly? Bryce is good for landscapes and Poser is good for quick figures, but I wouldn't suggest either as a main modeler of choice.

A nice, buget priced, modeler and renderer is Cinema 4d Go from Maxon. Maxon has just released Stuido 8 and is 'closing out' Cinema 4d Go at a cost of $195. The lowest price of the new Studio 8 package is $595 which is actually still a great deal...

If by some chance you happen to be a registered user of final cut pro you can get cinema 4d go for free from here: http://www.maxoncomputer.com/finalcut/

I believe danlabs uses a version of Cinema 4d so you can get a feel for the rendering quality from the image that has been posted as image of the week here and you can go the their galleries at:
http://www.maxon.net

edit: both cinema 4d go and studio 8 can import eps files that you can then extrude to 3d, if your blueprints are in eps format.

[Joseph Duchesne]

Mu budget is les than $300US. I want to model sci-fiction stuff like aliens and space-craft.

[Ian Kerr]

Animation Master (www.hash.com) is around that price I think. Last version I used crashed a lot though so be careful. If you could spare an extra hundred or two I would look into Lightwave (educational pricing). I got it for around $800 canadian with the educational discount. It has a great modeler and renderer imo.

-- Ian

[Joseph Duchesne]

Then that settles it. First I get Strata then Lightwave. I like user interface, features, hundred thousand fan sites and the new toon renderer in strata.

[AJ Infinity]

LW is good (I use it). But it works in a procedural way like C and not in an Objective way like C++ or Maya. Maya is the 3D app of the future, but the Mac version isn't really good. Keep Bryce, it rocks. and when you get LW (or do you use it already), make sure to get many tutorials and stuff. It's like the hardest 3D app on the planet. I still can't model very well, but I good at animation, effects, LScripting, and...HyperVoxels!

[AJ Infinity]

There's an edu. version of LW for $249, but there are some limitations. Get a demo of LW, first and learn it.

[AJ Infinity]

Heck, Cinema 4D R8 has motion dynamics and physics like Maya! Man, the dynamics in C4D blow away LW. But I'm not switching :D . Maxon has made a cinema 4D module called PyroCluster to compete with LW's HyperVoxels. Ouch.

[AJ Infinity]

Oh yeah, LW is not one program, but three. This can be confusing sometimes and will take time to get used to if you're used to unified programs like Universe, Maya, Cinema, or Strata.

[Carlos Camacho]

>But it works in a procedural way like C and not in an Objective way like C++

Not sure what that means....

Anyhow,
If you can get only ONE 3D app, you want to make sure it has a good balance of the following: modeling, rendering, animation. Also important are the update release schedule, stability, community support, and learning curve. So I won't talk about apps that seem to be out of your budget, here is my list for best bang for the buck..

1. Cararra 2
2. Amorphium 3
3. ZBrush
4. Strata 3D plus

I would list Strata higher but I think the "plus" version is only Mac OS 9 now, while its big brother JUST made it to Mac OS X. Cararra has a stable company behind it, offers a great value, many types of modeling and excellent rendering. Amorphium 3 has come a long way. If you like Bryce/Kai's Interfaces then you will be right at home. Also you can step up to Universe 5, made by the same company. A very strong 3D app. ZBrush is very interesting. It can allow you to model some great things. Download the demo and play back a ZSCRIPT and then be amazed! I didn't mention Lightwave. It is getting better and better, but the GUI is still a tad hard on the newbie. Education discounts are good though. I also didn't mention Hash, because as a former owner, and someone who was KICKED out of their forum, when I hadn't EVEN posted, I have given them the crown of WORSE software support in the biz. That said, for under $200, if you want to do character animation it is amazing. (But be prepared to be in beta mode the entire time you own the program.)

You can use 3D apps for 3 things IMHO. Creating pre-rendered sprites, creating backgrounds and large screen images, creating low-polygon count objects. What type of games will you be working on? That might have an impact on what you should buy. I didn't mention Cinema, as Cinema Go seems to be "GONE". Cinema 4D apps are great for rendering small sprites amoung other things. If they come out with a low-end version again, I would have recommended them. (I heard a low-end Lightwave is also in the works.)

Again, get all the DEMOS first. Also, get the Maya Education version and see what it is like to use a high-end program for a bit.

Last thing... I don't think ONE app can be the ultimate. They all bring pros and cons. I use several to tackle various jobs.

Cheers

[jamie]

I used to use Carrara as well, when it was 1.0 and that was a very nice app. was a nice cross between Ray Dream and Infini D. The modeler was easy to use and understand with it being in a separate 'room' and the rendering was pretty descent as well.

[codemattic]

Here is my pet peeve about some 3D (and other kinds of) apps. Yes - I know many many users feel differently! I dislike apps that create their own interface and take over the whole screen.

While there are some issues I have with Aqua and the Mac UI - for the most part I quite like the interface. The problem with a 3D app taking over the whole screen and using its own interface is that it doesnt work well with other apps. Its jarring to swap out of the fullscreen 'other' ui to the finder or photoshop or whatever else Im using.

Anybody else dislike this - or is it just me?

Codemattic

[Zachary]

Originally posted by Camacho

because as a former owner, and someone who was KICKED out of their forum, when I hadn't EVEN posted, I have given them the crown of WORSE software support in the biz.


How on eath did you get kicked out of their forum if you hadn't posted yet?

That's just...bizzare.

[Ian Kerr]

That puzzles me too (how you got kicked off without saying anything), did it have something to do with their mention in the article that you did about 3D programs for the Mac? but yes the Hash mailing list is moderated with a tight fist. If you say the word "bug" you're probably going to get flamed to death and kicked off. Don't ever compare their products to any others either, if you want to stay on their list that is.

Their support usually goes something like this...

You: "Hi I'm having this problem..." (usually related to the program crashing)
Them: "Do you have the latest version?" (new versions come out almost constantly)
You: "No"
Them: "Sorry we can't help you then, you're going to have to spend $100 to upgrade" (with no guarantee that your problem will be fixed by upgrading)
You: "Well geeze, when I buy software I expect it to work like it's supposed to"
Them: Silence :)

Then when you post your problem to their mailing list and get kicked off and are told to e-mail tech support your problems. The cycle continues... :)

-- Ian

[Joseph Duchesne]

Amorphium is good for organic modeling (Christmas trees! Aleins!) But I don't like the UI and the fact that youy have to and sometimes can't swich between clay and other modes. I think I'll just get strata. I have seen amazing modeling done with Lightwave and amazing art done with zbrush. I might get lightwave later. Actually bryce was a hard program to learn. It had no manuel and all the features were hidden in little flippy triangles and one letter rectangles. I think bryce is better than Amorphium for organic modeling with it's symetrical whatjamacallsits.

[w_reade]

IIRC, there's a pretty decent manual for bryce in one of the menu optionsÖ I haven't used a bryce since v3, so it might have changed in other versions. I found bryce to be a pretty poor modeller, although damn good for rendering stuff, but maybe that's just me.

[AJ Infinity]

Originally posted by Joseph Duchesne
Amorphium is good for organic modeling (Christmas trees! Aleins!) But I don't like the UI and the fact that youy have to and sometimes can't swich between clay and other modes. I think I'll just get strata. I have seen amazing modeling done with Lightwave and amazing art done with zbrush. I might get lightwave later. Actually bryce was a hard program to learn. It had no manuel and all the features were hidden in little flippy triangles and one letter rectangles. I think bryce is better than Amorphium for organic modeling with it's symetrical whatjamacallsits.

Symetrical lattices. Yes, Bryce is hard. Have you figured out the Deep Texture Editor (do you even know how to get there?) ? When you do, call, (or email me) and I'll give you a prize for being the only person I know to completely figure out the DTE. Get the book Real World Bryce 4 by Susan A. Kitchens and Victor A. Gavenda. Even though it says Bryce 4 on the cover, there is no Bryce 5 book as good as this. Yeah, it's very thick and heavy but helpful. Annnnd, it has a CD full of stuff. Also, go to BryceTech.com and 3D Cafe.com. They have good tutorials.

[Joseph Duchesne]

DTE? Yup I found that it's the little red button (top left seacond >)in the a-b-c-d textures. It is a bit tricky to get anything from you click the top left of each rectangle (red and blue circle) and then in the top left corner of the or filter you click the type of filter you can also click the top left and bottob right dialogs then you click the top right of any of those two and you get the actuall algotithims you can choose like techno and veroni (all 15 variatons). Ouch.
:o Yes I had bryce running in the background! :D I'm 14 in case you want to know why I know everything about Bryce 5 (except how to really use the deep motion tracker :???: ).

[Carlos Camacho]

>Anybody else dislike this - or is it just me?

It depends on the GUI. For example, Amapi takes some time to get use to. My main beef is if they don't use standard Mac dialog, file dialogs like Amapi did, or Lightwave, etc.. I use Strata and it used Mac OS windows but sometimes you spend more time moving windows that working. Look at Zbrush. That is a GREAT GUI yet it takes the entire screen.

>How on eath did you get kicked out of their forum if you hadn't posted yet?
I joined it and just lurked. One day the mod said you are out. I think their mailing loist had a bug and thought I was someone else. Anyhow, they are the MOST strict company when it comes to their mailing list. One negative beep or question and out you go.

>did it have something to do with their mention in the article that you did about 3D programs >for the Mac?
Good question. I got tremendous kudos on that Editorial. And yes, Hash also did email me. (But this was some time after I was kicked off their list.) My editorial states that the program is a good value and has great features for character animation -- but I stick by the fact that it has always felt like a BETA program. I was a user of it since the Amiga days BTW.. Also note that the glowing rewiews of that software are done by hardcore Hash users. (a la MacAddict's man)

Ian Kerr, that is exactly the case with them. I think I would pay $600 or more for the program if they would improve the stability and support. But they go for the fast buck I think. After upgrading for $100 so many times, I thought, "I could have bought a $2000 app by now."

Susan A. Kitchens knows her stuff!

BTW... If you are running Mac OS 9, check out EI 3D Toolkit which features and old version of Electric Image. That use to sell for $2000!

Cheers

[Quicksilver]

Has anyone else used Vue d' Espirit 4? In terms of rendering quality it is way better(Opinion) than Strata 3D. Also, some of the new features that are in strata like caustics have been in Vue a while longer. Don't think of it as only a nature scene renderer since it does almost everything you can throw at it. In addition to being an excelent renderer it has amazing animation capabilities that are easy to use but very powerful and the price is such a bargain. It's very easy to learn and has a very good, straight forward interface. Give it a try.

[AJ Infinity]

Heck, Joseph, I'm your age and I don't know everything about Bryce, either. I strongly recommend Real World Bryce 4, also. The Advanced Motion Lab (that's what it's called) is sort of like LightWave and Combustion or Final Cut Pro. It's like LW's motion mixer, and Combustion's motion tracker (but you don't know what those are :D, so I'll stop). I'm not going to explain it considering I don't have the time ;) nor the space for screenshots, examples, etc.

Welcome to "Find that Bryce Feature". And I'm your host, AJ Infinity. Today, we shall try to find: The display modes options. Know how to make Bryce render objects realtime? (this one's for people who say Bryce isn't realtime). Oh yeah, maybe we shouldn't mess with Kai Krause's interface like this :D.

[AJ Infinity]

And nobody can forget that Bryce is good at rendering volumetrics. LW's Hypervoxels is much better, but Bryce is easier.
Here's what I mean by objective: an object's action can influence another object's action. Like the real world physics app I want to make, Cinema 4D and Maya work in a way like this. It's slightly like this in LW, although new users don't notice it.

Camacho, I can't explain to you what I mean, but I'll try by giving an example:

Let's say we want to create a simple metaball particle effect. To do it in LightWave:
1. Launch LW Modeller
2. Create a metaball
3. Save it
4. Launch LW Layout and LW Hub
5. Open metaball file
6. Create an FX_Emitter on a null object
7. Link the metaball to the FX_Emitter using FX_Linker
8. Modify settings in your FX_Emitter and FX_Linker
9. Do a little tweaking (I don't feel like explaining here)
10. Add gravity with FX_Gravity
11. Render

In Cinema 4D:
1. Create a metaball
2. Create a particle emitter
3. Create gravity
4. Drag the metaball under the particle emitter and gravity under the metaball, in the heiarchy pane.
5. Tweak and render

Obviously, Cinema's easier than LW. I'm going to somehow get Cinema (instead of the PowerBook; the PowerBook doesn't have an academic discount) since it's now (in release 8 version w/ all modules) a high end 3D app just as powerful as LW or Maya. Annd, it looks like Maya yet it's cheaper. I find it much easier to work in Cinema than in LW (although I think LW has better IK and modelling) I wonder if scripting in Cinema is objective. Scripting in LW is procedural (like C or Basic) and it's not very easy.

After Effects and Cinema together sounds good, considering that I'm into special fx, etc. I prefer Combustion over AE, but Combustion's expensive. Anyone suprised I can do all this on a G3?

[Quicksilver]

Vue does volumetrics to.:D

Strange that no one seems to take it seriously.:???:

[Joseph Duchesne]

Were you hired by Vue? I like bryce and strata I just want a good powerful modler that is not called amapi(I have 4.0).

[Dr. Light]

For the adventurer, the engineer or the cheapskate, you can get Meshworks and POV-Ray. Whip it up in the engineer freindly Meshworks, then Render it in POV-Ray. That'll do ya about $30. If I get some free time I'll try to make that $0 with my very-very-very pre-alpha testing stage Meshworkish modeler "MacMesh". The idea is a simple rig, and requires some programming knowledge for POV-Ray, but its cheap. :D

[Joseph Duchesne]

I like meshwork but I have amapi.

[AJ Infinity]

Originally posted by Joseph Duchesne
Were you hired by Vue? I like bryce and strata I just want a good powerful modler that is not called amapi(I have 4.0).

Since I promote Flash and Macs so much, how come people ask me if I'm an Apple salesman, but they never ask me if I work for Macromedia?

[AJ Infinity]

Quicksilver, don't talk about Vue-d-Espirit to a long time Brycean. Nope. It's dangerous.

[Joseph Duchesne]

Vue can be dangerous but Mojo world is way more dangerous.

[Quicksilver]

Just face it, bryce stinks.

Starting the hate mail..

[Joseph Duchesne]

Um have you ever used Bryce 5 or seen some of the stuff done with it? Does Vue have a volumetric world, Quicktime VR export, quick picture-3D modeling, A tree lab, a verry unadvanced sky lab or a invisible manuel?

[Quicksilver]

Yes, all of that and much more.

No, I don't work e-on software. Just supporting a great under rated app.

[Darkgold]

Originally posted by Joseph Duchesne
Um have you ever used Bryce 5 or seen some of the stuff done with it?

Have YOU ever used Vue4?

[Carlos Camacho]

In case anyone is interested E-on sent me Vue and I shall be reviewing it for the site.

Cheers,

[Joseph Duchesne]

Vue? Under Rated ? It got the same as Bryce. Maybe macworld did a different rating but Macaddict gave it a good one. I have tried Vue and I like it but I guess I'm just used to bryce's werid interface.

[Quicksilver]

Under rated by the public, it happens sometimes when the product is marketed strangely or not very well.

[Joseph Duchesne]

I bought Bryce over Vue and Mojo World because Bryce has been around longer, has a larger user base and *.


*(Whisper: it's made by a canadian company)

[Zachary]

Originally posted by Joseph Duchesne
I bought Bryce over Vue and Mojo World because Bryce has been around longer, has a larger user base and *.


*(Whisper: it's made by a canadian company)

heh, using that logic I should go out and buy a spectrum :p

[AJ Infinity]

Steve Jobs ditched Kai Krause and Bryce when he gave that special Apple recognition award or whatever to Vue. Well, Bryce has been used in movies and Vue hasn't.

/ / AJ Infinity snickers / /

[Joseph Duchesne]

What Movie? Bryce is better because it doesn't put a demo on a Macaddicd CD and expect you to download another 20MB after you get it.

[Zwilnik]

We (well specifically Adam) started using Cinema 4D because of the render quality (it's one of the best renderers out there) and now it's got rather nice soft IK and particles. With version 8 Maxon has started breaking the bundle down to a more reasonably priced basic kit with the various plugins being add ons or available in 'studio' packs.

Lightwave is a bit of an old Amiga hanger on. It's a good package, but the interface takes a lot of learning and now Maya and C4D are the same price or lower, it's looking a bit creaky.

Just been playing with C4D's Xpresso scripting. If you've ever played with Reaktor (the synth creation kit) or Max (the similar sound creation kit), you'll feel right at home :)

[akisha]

I have fiddled around with the demo of Amorphium and it's really cool. The UI is sorta weird, but it doesn't bother me that much. It's very easy to learn, and you can create quick models that look good in almost no time!

[Quicksilver]

I sure wish we had 3ds Max, I've seen some very decent things done with it.

[Joseph Duchesne]

I don't like amorphium. It takes to much hassle to change between clay and other modes.

[akisha]

:???: To convert from wax to a mesh sphere, just select the convert to mesh sphere tool, and click on the wax blob. That easy!

[Joseph Duchesne]

:???: Must havge changed since I last tried the demo.

[AJ Infinity]

3ds max has a physics engine called reactor which is like the real world physics app I wanted to make. I was creating my physics app to rival reactor.

Movies? Look out for one called Infinity's Child and another called Planetary Traveller. Also, The Shahnra Project. For feature films, they use Maya or Maya or Maya (darn, all they seem to like is Maya :D).

[Joseph Duchesne]

No they also use Maya:) :D .

[Shivers]

i definetly reccommend Cinema 4d for everything. I use XL and not GO but I assume the basics carry over. I has great render quality, a good interface and easy to create low or high polygon models. Great dynamics and good animation (not the best). It is also cross-platform which is good. It works better than anything else I have tried and isn't horribly expensive.

[Danlab]

im using cinema4D because
*the render is very fast
*easy to use
*can render into variouse format
*render pictures with alpha channel

you can find here (http://www.danlabgames.com/index.php?rub=portfolio) my portfoli with 3d stuff

[AJ Infinity]

cinema is better than lightwave because
1. It's cheaper
2. It's easier to use
3. It has more features

just adding on or restating what you said.

[AJ Infinity]

LightWave definitely beats Cinema when it comes to IK and character animation. And HyperVoxels!

[Shivers]

achhh, animating is for pansies!

just kidding. Lightwave is more powerful for animating indeed, but who wants to have to go through so much just to get to animating. And also, it is more powerful, but not as easy.

[AJ Infinity]

Yeah, I've been using it for a year and I haven't completely learned it.

[AJ Infinity]

Note: LW isn't for games. The LWSDK's code that allows you to import LWO's is outdated. It's for LW 6.5. LW's current version is 7.5. The LWO format changes with each version. So the code won't work and you can't use LWO models in your game. LW doesn't export models in any format but LWO so there is nothing you can really do about it. You can, however, export an LWO and then import it into another 3D app. Then save it as an OBJ or 3DS. These formats are more popular for games. This is the reason H2O became a 2D game that doesn't use LWO's.

[Shivers]

righto

never the less

C4D is in my opinion the best valued 3d program.

[Shivers]

yeah, hash looks like a good character animator, but I would much rather support a company with my money that is good to its users and tries to deliver the best expirience and quality products than a company that just sells a product to make money and ends the customer relationship there.

[DoG]

Without looking at all the previous posts, I must say Cinema 4D. I have been using since it's version 4, yeah, back when it's software rendering was faster than hw accelerated on my Powerbook 5300.

It has grown since then, but I still prefer it over anything, as far as usability goes, even ( or especially ) lightwave sux compared to it. And C4D can give you a fast preview render, and has a very good render time to quality trade off.

C4D is definitely missing some advanced tools (which you can find in progs 10x the price), but it is a good value buy.

Also, I think C4D's learning curve is not much worse than that of really cheap 3D packages. And even once you know the low end c4d package, you will find your way in XL in no time.

- D.G

[AJ Infinity]

Oh yes LW is very hard to learn.

C4D's a good choice because the majority of it's features are better than LW's. For example, LW Modeller exports only to LWO and EPSF (whatever that is). LW Layout exports scenes in nearly every format imaginable. C4D doesn't really have the modelling power of LW. But, it has excellent After Effects intergration the same way Maya has Shake intergration.


Bryce's Display Modes option is located on the right hand side of the screen. Look for a wireframe cube, and then click and hold the mouse on it. A menu will pop up. The menu has the options Default Wireframe, OpenGL, and Sree 3D. Default Wireframe displays objects as wireframes, OpenGL displays objects in realtime via OpenGL (this has the best quality), and Sree 3D is Bryce's built in realtime display (this is the fastest).

[flipflop]

What about Strata 3d? Not having used it myself I'm just curious how it compares to Cinema4d...

[Shivers]

I dont know too much about strata, but I do not that it isn't as widely used which is in fact fairly important.

[AJ Infinity]

Arggh!! I got a C4D demo and was very upset when I saw that it was missing a LW style Spreadsheet Editor, a LW style Graph Editor, a LW style Scene editor, and a LW (and Maya/Bryce) style motion mixer. No wonder I've always used LW for animation. And LW has astounding Poser intergration (C4D doesn't).

I've heard that Strata is cheap :). (meaning, under $1000 :D). Also heard something about bad IK. IK is easy in LW.

[AJ Infinity]

Like Camacho said, it's good to have multiple 3D apps. My setup:

LW...animation and movies, Hrypervoxels
Bryce...rendering and scene assembly, terrain
C4D...scene assembly, After Effects intergration, NURBS modeling, Maya-like world physics

[flipflop]

Eeek gads! That's got to cost a fortune! :blink:

[Bachus]

Just want to add my vote for Hash's Animation: Master.

I can't speak on Hash's support (as I've never looked for any) and the lack of an OS X version is annoying (though it works fine for me in Classic), but I oh so love the modeler. I've tried the other programs like Carrara and Lightwave and never really liked them, but the spline-based modeling of AM just clicks with me.

[AJ Infinity]

I got them as academic discounts (I'm in high school):

$249 for LW
$79 for Bryce
I'm using a free demo of C4D

The $249 academic version of LW is limited to noncommercial uses. (can't do anything with it that you'll be paid for; so Rageflight will be free; I plan to do it for uDevGame 2003)

[Shivers]

rules like that (non-commercial versions) seem sorta silly. I guess that makes sense for demos, but if you pay for it than I think it should be yours to do whatever with. There are so many variables, like exporting from C4D for modelling to LW for animating to bryce and rendering it there, are you allowed to sell that? What if you change 2 points in LW and then switch back to C4D?

thats my humble opinion

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by Shivers
rules like that (non-commercial versions) seem sorta silly. I guess that makes sense for demos, but if you pay for it than I think it should be yours to do whatever with. There are so many variables, like exporting from C4D for modelling to LW for animating to bryce and rendering it there, are you allowed to sell that? What if you change 2 points in LW and then switch back to C4D?

I think the idea is that the educational version should be used to learn how to use the software and gain experience doing 3D work in general. Of course, there's really no way for the company to know what you're using the software for, and I doubt they'd really care if you use it for a $10 shareware game; restrictions of this sort are there primarily to keep a company from buying a 50-seat site license at the academic pricing and using it to make a $100 million movie.

[w_reade]

yeah, but all the same, do not meddle in the affairs of lawyers; for they are subtle and quick to anger.

And I'm rather loving Amorphium 3 at the moment. Strange but cool.

[AJ Infinity]

We high schoolers can't afford $1500 software!

[Matt Brown]

Originally posted by w_reade
yeah, but all the same, do not meddle in the affairs of lawyers; for they are subtle and quick to anger.


I agree, but unless there's a watermark (which there almost certainly is) or they recognize the Hypervoxels, (which they should) there isn't any way to tell.

Downloading the PC demo version of Strata 3D tonight (hopefullly, but if it's more than 8 meg, screw it) and will give my comments.

[Matt Brown]

Wait, can't. My PC has no graphics accelerator.

[GameDev]

Why don't you try Wings3d. It is fairly simple to learn and you can't beat the price (it's open source.) It doesn't do anything spectacular, but it's good for simple jobs. kiki was done in Wings3d, I believe.

[AJ Infinity]

The LW demo has a watermark but the edu. doesn't.

[codemattic]

Originally posted by Bachus
Just want to add my vote for Hash's Animation: Master.
I can't speak on Hash's support (as I've never looked for any) and the lack of an OS X version is annoying (though it works fine for me in Classic), but I oh so love the modeler.

I just got their latest flyer in the mail - they say a Mac OS X version is coming in 2003. Hopefully that doesnt mean they are going to release the X version 9 months from now!!

[aqsalter]

What does anybody think of Blender (www.blender3d.org)?

I've been looking for a good 3d renderer...

[Shivers]

The LW demo has a watermark but the edu. doesn't.

any water mark is fairly simple to get rid of also.

[AJ Infinity]

Ones with transparent logos (like LW's watermark) aren't. :D

[Leisure Suit Lurie]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
Oh yes LW is very hard to learn.

C4D's a good choice because the majority of it's features are better than LW's. For example, LW Modeller exports
only to LWO and EPSF (whatever that is).
Encapsulated Postscript Format.

Sorry. I have a head for acronyms.

[Carlos Camacho]

Someone asked about Strata. I've used it for years.

They got a bump when the first Myst used it. For a long time, "they lived on that." Then some silly 3D-TV company without a clue bought them. New versions were delayed and when they shipped, they were buggy. That really hurt their business. Much like Electric Image and PLAY drama. Like E.I., the companys went back to their owners and roots. And now are going forward. Strata has a VERY good rendering engine. It also has a good shader/material creator. For making quick mechanical objects, it is good. To make animation, it is not. They did finally get onto Mac OS X, which is great. They have good support for Win and Mac, and a good community site at www.stratacafe.com. Unlike Hash, they aren't likely to kick you off the Strata list either. Their community is pretty nice I think.

To me, companies offer education versions so that when you get a job, you are apt to use what you learned in school at your work place. (Or ask for it, or buy it, etc)

I also have tried Amo Pro. It is interesting. Try ZSculpt/Paint sometime. Without doing nothing, like on a ZScript and watch an alien head be created before your very eyes. WOW! It is super cool.

Cheers

[snickrep]

I am thinking a buying a 3D animation education software. I have Maya, LightWave, and Cinema 4D. I want a program that I can just stick with so I don't have to purchase all these different programs. I also want a program good with game development and low-poly models. Maya is very expensive and I hear the academic license expires after a year and that the lightwave license does not expire at all. Lightwave and cinema 4D are both very well priced. I hear lightwave is better with the game development area, but harder to learn compared to cinema 4D. I will be purchasing a package this summer so I have a while till I do so.

Jack

[AJ Infinity]

I have trouble making models in Cinema. LW has some features that are just more useful in games. There are PLENTY of LW tutorials on the web. In your other thread I gave links to them at the beginning. Plus there are GREAT LW books on the market, including Inside LightWave 7, which is the best LW book.

[Shivers]

I think we all heard that you like LW and think it is the best, but we have supplied Snick with enough info, saying the same thing again won't help.

[AJ Infinity]

To tell you the truth, I can't figure out why he posted in this thread anyway when he had it in the thread he'd already started. :lol:

[snickrep]

sorry i ask the same questions, its just I dont want to spend money on something I will end up hating. I think I will be buying Lightwave 3D 7 academic . How long do you think it would take to learn? Any good tutorial books? What are the modeling and animation tools like? From what i've heard so far, lightwave is harder to learn than Maya and 3Ds max. I always thought that maya and 3ds max were harder than lightwave from reviews and articles I have read.

[AJ Infinity]

There is an active LW user community on the net today. There are many tutorials.

[Carlos Camacho]

If anyone is wondering... I am closing threads that don't seem to die even though the questions have been answered, and GOOGLE exists. For MORE info on a subject, re-read the thread, see who knows what they are taalking about, and then send them an email...

Cheers