ALT: Game Engines

[applekid]

Alright, I'm gonna be the lazy programmer today. I'm gonna have some free time this week and I thought I explore an alternative to learning programming to creating games. The only things I found were Coldstone and GameMaker. Yes, I do know I'm probably better off writing code for games and creating graphics and sounds and make my own game. But, I want to experiment. So, can you guys name a few game engines and give a little description or what genre they are specifically created for. I'm looking for RPG and/or platformers but I want to see other engines too, just in case I'm interested.

[macboy]

World Builder was a very good text/graphical adventure game creator, unfortunately it's Black and White and Classic only.

GameMaker and other card-based development systems aren't going to be very good for RPGs.

I used Coldstone a little and just from that short while I didn't think it was very good.

There's really not much else besides text adventure stuff. :(

[Shivers]

well, coldstone is what you should use for an RPG. it will do what you need it to unless you want a "party". Check out realm wars if you decide to do an FPS...

the Myth 2 engine (just buy myth 2 and use the map editor) or warcraft 3 engine....both are designed for RTS's but have really nice scripting that you can get a small RPG out with.

i dunno anything else.

[macboy]

Too bad there aren't more Mac engines... Just in case you're interested in Windoze game engines, here are some good ones which I really liked:

GameMaker (it has nothing in common with the Mac one - just search http://www.download.com for it)
OHRRPGCE (http://www.hamsterrepublic.com/ohrrpgce/) (for RPGs)

[sealfin]

Klik&Play (various spellings, 9/Classic only, needs the colour palette to be edited in ResEdit for any decent graphics - Googled for the link, but only got Japanese and GeoCities-esque pages :???: ), Bang! (http://www.plaidworld.com/bang.html) (seems to be still in development), and the Green Machine (http://www.sawbladesoftware.com/) (thanks jamie!) (although according to another thread it's very slow.)

[jamie]

The GreenMachine

[applekid]

Thanks for the input folks.

But i downloaded the green machine a long while back and it just froze on me so i just deleted it.

I've read a few reviews for Coldstone and they seem pretty weak.

I'm suprised there is Mac version of Klik&Play. I remember that from the PC a while ago. I haven't found anything googling. Oh well.

So in a nutshell, my canidates are:
Platformer = Green Machine
RPG = Coldstone

Is there any 3D engines that I could just jump into? I mean, I have Photoshop and I can use 3D software, but is there a way to get past the programming part?

Also, I'm looking for Mac-only and a demo download.

[jamie]

there was a 3d engine mentioned here awhile ago that was recently being ported to OSX, I think it may have been Qube (cube)? not sure though.

Also Dim3 is in the works and coming along nicely, not sure there is anything currently available for download though.

[macboy]

Originally posted by jamie
The GreenMachine It doesn't seem like it gives enough control.

[Darkgold]

If you have access to a PC or Virtual PC, I found RPGMaker2000 very good.

[applekid]

So I guess my options are pretty slim. Oh well. No problem guys. I'll just try to work with The Green Machine and Coldstone. Maybe you'll see something from me in a couple of weeks.

If you have anything to add, please be my guest, but other than that, thanks again.

[OneSadCookie]

"Quake" and "Quake 2" are free 3D engines available for Mac OS X...

[Sta7ic]

Joking second on OSC, you'd need to figure out how to integrate the old engines onto yer app. That'd be a chore and a half.

Don't we get this thread every other week around here?

-Sta7ic

[applekid]

The other threads seem to center a certain engine or certain genre. I thought I try to get every single engine available on the Mac in one thread.

[DCoder]

Well, it's going to depend very heavily on whether or not you actually want to do any programming.

As has been mentioned, there's:

Coldstone Game Engine (http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/coldstone/), which looks pretty powerful, but has lots of RPG baggage.
The Green Machine (http://www.sawbladesoftware.com/green-machine.html), which just feels dog-slow on my G4 800

But there's also:
METAL Basic (http://www.iit.edu/%7Esarimar/GDS/metal.html)
TNT Basic (http://www.tntbasic.com/)
Torque (http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1)
And if you're looking for a whole slew of adventure-style game tools, theres:
The Mac Game Creator Toolkit (http://members.aol.com/AlStaff/macgamecreator.html)

If you're looking for a lower-level library, then these might be useful:
Simple DirectMedia Layer (SDL) (http://www.libsdl.org/)
Quesa (QD3D implementation) (http://quesa.org/)
OpenGL (http://www.opengl.org/)

Some higher-level libraries that aren't quite game engines, but provide useful routines:
SpriteWorld (http://www.spriteworld.org/)
Cocoa Sprite Kit (http://www.sugarcubesoftware.com/csk/) (MacOS X only)
Sprite Animation Toolkit (http://www.lysator.liu.se/~ingemar/sat.html)
Crystal Space (http://crystal.sourceforge.net/drupal/)
CocoaBlitz (http://www.variableaspect.com/experiments/CocoaBlitz/)

One thing that I'm looking into is the myriad 2D game / sprite engine systems listed on SDL's Libraries page (http://www.libsdl.org/libraries.php). If you're a MacOS X bigot (like me), then you might find it challenging to work with the likes of:
GameBlade (http://gameblade.sourceforge.net/)
Kyra (http://www.grinninglizard.com/kyra/)
SGE (http://www.etek.chalmers.se/~e8cal1/sge/index.html)
ZEngine (http://zengine.sourceforge.net/)

Hope this helps; this is pretty much my "wannabe game programmer" bookmark list. :D

-dC

[Joseph Duchesne]

Coldstone isn't for RPGs It can't do turn based battles. I have it and have found it slow, and limited. coldstone CAN make good action/adventures like Diablo but thats just about it. I was going to use it for Matt and I's RPG: Gunslinger Chronicles but I decided that I would just make my own engine in MetaL(Great free language :) ). The limiting things in Coldstone are:
No stamp mask option
Player is limited to tile based movement
No options for turn based battle
Somewhat confuzing plugin building
It's not completly costomizable

My GC game engine has all these features and more but :D alas is not finished.

Your best bet would be to make your own in a high level language like I did, in MetaL.

[applekid]

Yeah, I know I'm better off writing code and taking the long way, but I thought I see what's available and try to make a game.

[sealfin]

My GC game engine has all these features and more but alas is not finished.

I'd take the 'limited-features but working engine' over the 'unsurpassed-features but not working engine' :p (but then again, I can't talk :blush:)

[sealfin]

applekid, there's also Aleph One (the open-source engine from Marathon) which, with it's third-person camera, you could build a decent enough for the effort 3d platformerÖ

[applekid]

Thanks for the heads up, sealfin! :)

[sealfin]

The Aleph One (http://source.bungie.org/) link; also I forgot to say that Aleph One can also make use of polygon models as creatures et al, not just sprites as in the original Marathon engine.

[GoodDoug]

DC, can you post that list to the FAQ? It would be good to have there.

[sealfin]

GoodDoug, I'm typing in all the game-engines mentioned in this thread, plus Torque et al as I type this; though, should Aleph One be listed instead as a 'mod-engine' (I'm assuming you can't sell games made with Aleph One/the Marathon source-code?)

[Joseph Duchesne]

:D Actually I'd take coldstone over my engine any day:lol: I have the tile/stamp engine done but what good is that, there are no NPCs or badguys!

[lpetrich]

The A1 source code was released under the GPL, that ultimate software poison pill. ;)

So if you wish to use it, anything you release will have to be equally open-source (you don't have to release source for anything you keep to yourself).

However, the Crystal Space (http://crystal.sourceforge.net) engine is under the LGPL, which permits closed-source, commercial apps. It's fancier, but not as mature in some ways.

[macboy]

I've found a new RPG creation tool called IsoWorld (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/9937) on MacUpdate (http://www.macupdate.com). I haven't tested it extensively but the only problem it has is it seems to be quite slow :blink:

[ERaZer]

IsoWorld isn't new, and it isn't slow either. It's just their weird updating thing, so when you try to walk it updates the frames slowly unless you want to walk really fast...

[macboy]

Originally posted by ERaZer
IsoWorld isn't new, and it isn't slow either.Then how come nobody posted it :p

[griffin239]

This seems like the appropriate thread to post.
I've been planning for some weeks on posting
the availability of the T3D Editor for idevgames
members.
I better do it now before I don't do it at all.

Please contact me at the email address in my
user profile or on ichat > smashspeak.

This is kind of a closed release as
we have no documentation and
there could be mass confusion.

I may have to start a thread to discuss the workings
of the engine, I'm just not sure where to do that yet.

T3D is the engine behind Antack (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/AntackMac.com)
I suggest you download that and look at the Scripts folder, as well as the scripts contained
in the Levels folder to get a sense of what kind of arcane understaning it takes
to develop a T3D game. Its a lot like assembly, only its not.

Since uDev we have added lighting and some more math functions.
Tobi is also redeveloping the entire interface of the application, but
he has school and other priorities. I'll try to answer as many questions
as possible, but to date some things are still a mystery to me.

I currently have 166megs of content that I've used for experimenting with the engine, some
of it good some of it just crud for testing with.
My working examples are Antack of course, ultra simple tic tac toe, an experiment
in space game that might cripple machines under dual 450mhz G4, and a point and
click Castle maker that can be modified to build cities and such. Oh and I mustn't
forget Tobi's Zombie demo, a gorey bit of ultra violence among some others.

If your interested download Antack as that is the most complete example
and easiest to start experimenting with as everything is working.
Then we can move on from that point.

I look forward to helping you make some games.

[ERaZer]

Originally posted by macboy
Then how come nobody posted it :p
Well, becouse it is like very unknown in the game creation scene. I saw it in year 2000 and then it might've been out for a while.

[applekid]

I've been planning for some weeks on posting
the availability of the T3D Editor for idevgames
members.


I'll check out Antack and I'll contact you if I'm interested. 166 megs seems tedious though, maybe you can shrink down the package. (Sorry, I'm on a dial-up connection).

[griffin239]

I wouldn't transfer it all, it would become confusing.
Just noting that there is a lot of stuff to muck around with...
and I'm keeping track of a lot of stuff.

[applekid]

How big would the file be for essentials, then?

[griffin239]

Pleasee email further questions or all the answers will get buried in this thread eventually.

The application and essential resources are 1.1 megs unstuffed.
Once you start adding models, sounds, textures, to that it starts to increase.
All the scripting is plain text so those are relatively small.

The engine uses Meshwork models with any Quicktime
format image as texture.
Ogg-Vorbis and Mp3's for sound.

Stop worrying about file sizes...it's totaly irrelevant.