Lugaru Testing

[OneSadCookie]

Um, is it intended that when you walk off the edge of the world you should turn black, fly down, bounce back up, float face-down in mid-air and convulse?

[David]

Yeah :)

In the real game I think when the edge gets visible you will go to an island map or something

[David]

Uploaded a new build to http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit
No really dramatic changes, i.e. no new content but there are a lot of structural updates.

Changes:
-Loading screen/music
-Moved camera up a little more
-Damage effects, i.e. camera swaying, blurry vision, mini-blackouts, etc. to help show what health level you're at
-Misc. bug fixes:
ïrabbits teleporting into nothingness
ïrendering bugs on old cards (I think)
ïground rendering bug on high platforms
ïrabbit-kick collision
ïsome others
-Better counter-reversal animations
-Distance-based LOD on rabbit models
-Trilinear filtering and music toggles in config

I think that's about it

[OneSadCookie]

If I play long enough, the screen just goes black, rabbits start vanishing, static replaces some sounds, ick!

Rabbits are still suicidal on 3rd level...

I think you should distinguish between "dizzy" motion-blur, "big move" motion-blur and "enemy died" motion blur. Perhaps camera unsteadiness (instead of blur?) whilst dizzy, and always slomo for enemy death?

I love this game already! You can get some great cinematic sequences, I love the way you can counter and counter and do whole sequences of moves where both characters end up on their feet, unhurt, at the end!

[w_reade]

How about a double-vision effect for the "dizzy" one? Not for all detail settings, sure, but if you render-to-texture for the blur, it should be trivial to draw two quads instead of one for the final scene, right? And only one needs to be transparent... just a suggestion, anyway.

[David]

If I play long enough, the screen just goes black, rabbits start vanishing, static replaces some sounds, ick!

:blink: That's very weird... what kind of system do you have? OS, settings, hardware etc.

Yeah rabbits are a bit weird with the tall platforms, but I don't think there actually will be many (or any perhaps) in the final game.

I'll try the double vision thing :) That shouldn't be difficult.

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by David
:blink: That's very weird... what kind of system do you have? OS, settings, hardware etc.

G4 2x867 / 256MiB / 10.2.4 ; GeForce4MX / 32MiB

You're using a heck of a lot of RAM (Or maybe you're leaking; swaps badly on exit); maybe that's the problem?

[macboy]

Uh oh...

I turned on slow motion* and it started showing only in that little box in the bottom-left corner of the screen... then when I turned it off the entire screen started flickering... I'm guessing it had to do with the blur as I had turned it on for the first time (in OS 9) to see what it looked like when you get hit with it on... but the strange thing is, when I did get hit (before this) it worked perfectly. :blink:

* while doing a rabbit kick - this creates a cool effect, maybe you should add it ;)

[w_reade]

Oh, and on the most recent build I've been getting unexpected quits when I deliberately quit:

**********

Date/Time: 2003-04-23 22:12:14 +0100
OS Version: 10.2 (Build 6C115)
Host: William-Reades-Computer.local.

Command: Lugaru
PID: 1184

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000019

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x002052b8 in Block_link
#1 0x00205c44 in deallocate_from_var_pools
#2 0x00206394 in _pool_free
#3 0x0020667c in free
#4 0x0022ddcc in 0x22ddcc
#5 0x0022b9e8 in 0x22b9e8
#6 0x00231cf4 in 0x231cf4
#7 0x0022f0f4 in 0x22f0f4
#8 0x001c1fe4 in Game::Dispose(void)
#9 0x001a19d4 in CleanUp(void)
#10 0x001a1ac4 in main

Thread 1:
#0 0x90074328 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90006670 in mach_msg
#2 0x901490b0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90181578 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x905e2d90 in XIOAudioDeviceManager::NotificationThread(XIOAudio DeviceManager*)
#5 0x905e2cac in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#6 0x90021428 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x002052b8 srr1: 0x0000d030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x00205c44 ctr: 0x00206660 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x0000000d r1: 0xbffff810 r2: 0x002bd000 r3: 0x0000000d
r4: 0x03b8a018 r5: 0x002c8a20 r6: 0x00000443 r7: 0x00000020
r8: 0x0000001f r9: 0xa0220a00 r10: 0x03960010 r11: 0xa02219e4
r12: 0x002b6d74 r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x00000000 r17: 0x00000000 r18: 0x00000000 r19: 0x00000000
r20: 0xbffffe98 r21: 0xffffffff r22: 0xbffffc60 r23: 0x00000000
r24: 0x0005c9e0 r25: 0x00004000 r26: 0xbffffe88 r27: 0xbfffff04
r28: 0x00002ce0 r29: 0x03b8a000 r30: 0x03b8a018 r31: 0x03b99ffc

**********

Date/Time: 2003-04-24 19:26:58 +0100
OS Version: 10.2 (Build 6C115)
Host: William-Reades-Computer.local.

Command: Lugaru
PID: 1445

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000019

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x002052b8 in Block_link
#1 0x00205c44 in deallocate_from_var_pools
#2 0x00206394 in _pool_free
#3 0x0020667c in free
#4 0x0022ddcc in 0x22ddcc
#5 0x0022b9e8 in 0x22b9e8
#6 0x00231cf4 in 0x231cf4
#7 0x0022f0f4 in 0x22f0f4
#8 0x001c1fe4 in Game::Dispose(void)
#9 0x001a19d4 in CleanUp(void)
#10 0x001a1ac4 in main

Thread 1:
#0 0x90074328 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90006670 in mach_msg
#2 0x901490b0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90181578 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x905e2d90 in XIOAudioDeviceManager::NotificationThread(XIOAudio DeviceManager*)
#5 0x905e2cac in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#6 0x90021428 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x002052b8 srr1: 0x0000d030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x00205c44 ctr: 0x00206660 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x0000000d r1: 0xbffff810 r2: 0x002bd000 r3: 0x0000000d
r4: 0x03b8a018 r5: 0x002c8a20 r6: 0x00000443 r7: 0x00000020
r8: 0x0000001f r9: 0xa0220a00 r10: 0x03960010 r11: 0xa02219e4
r12: 0x002b6d74 r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x00000000 r17: 0x00000000 r18: 0x00000000 r19: 0x00000000
r20: 0xbffffe98 r21: 0xffffffff r22: 0xbffffc60 r23: 0x00000000
r24: 0x0005c9e0 r25: 0x00004000 r26: 0xbffffe88 r27: 0xbfffff04
r28: 0x00002ce0 r29: 0x03b8a000 r30: 0x03b8a018 r31: 0x03b99ffc

G4/400/128/Rage128/10.2.0, medium detail IIRC.

[David]

You're using a heck of a lot of RAM (Or maybe you're leaking; swaps badly on exit); maybe that's the problem?

That's most likely it, there are some pointers I don't deallocate(?) correctly

Motion blur doesn't work on some cards, and causes the flickering thing :/

I'll see what I can do about the crash on quit

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
Motion blur doesn't work on some cards, and causes the flickering thing :/Thing is... it works on X...

[David]

I guess X has more compatible render-to-texture stuff :)

[David]

hmm just tried it under OS X
noticed that in X blood slows it down a lot, and it doesn't seem to show the loading screen :/
Also runs about 40% slower

[macboy]

So, what do you think about "rabbit kick slow-mo"?

It's okay if you don't use it, I just wanted to make sure you saw that part.

[macboy]

Also, think about making the level editor overhead; I think that would make it much easier to edit. :)

[David]

Hmm rabbit kick slomo might be interesting, it goes slomo if you knock someone out with it, which usually seems to happen if you hit them :)

Giving the map editor an overhead view could be good, we'll see :cool:

[macboy]

One more question for the night: is it possible to add/script rabbits with the map editor or are you hand-coding it? ;)

[David]

Oh yeah

Map editor character stuff:
p = add rabbit
shift+p = add waypoint
shift+delete = remove rabbit

[David]

No new build yet, but I think I've fixed most of the bugs mentioned, so felt like adding a couple new things:
-Rabbits run for help when hurt, unless they're the only ones alive
-A much-requested 'sneak attack'
-A 'finishing' move for unconscious rabbits... can also be used to kick dead bodies at enemies

:p

[OneSadCookie]

3 words: flopsy bunny ears!

Need to detect collisions against bunny geometry rather than against masses/particles. I have a cool shot of two dead intersecting bunnies, + it would probably solve bugs like where (hehe he said bugs) a bunny's legs can intersect each other.

I won a level despite being dead (The last enemy bunny died a split second before me) — I suspect the logic needs to be "all enemies are dead and player is alive at end of level".

[Wrisc]

I've just had a look at the new build, and I have a few bugs (which have probably already been mentioned; if so, disregard ;))

there appears to be a problem with collision detection regarding the rabbit kick; I can sometimes go through moving targets; and the height doesn't have to match them in order for a hit to register.

Also, where there are platforms (most noticeable on map #2), occasionally the rabbits will die from simply dropping off the edge of the plaform (or walking off).

Sometimes when a new level loads; the enemies already have blood on them. Also; not sure if this is intentional, but you have far less health the second time around if you die during a level.

~~

I've got a small suggestion to make as well; is it possible for the rabbit to move around to face an opponent by a 'lock on' key ? ~ For close-in encounters, it can be frustrating if a rabbit runs around behind you & it takes a couple of seconds to re-adjust your position; usually you have to run off manically for a second or so so that you aren't in their line of fire while you re-adjust.

Also; not being able to perform kicks/etc. when out of range of a target; is this something that will remain in the game?

~~

Other than that though, it's very nice =), sorry if my comments have been mentioned before.

~Wrisc

[David]

3 words: flopsy bunny ears!

Hehe that sounds good, I'll see what I can do.

Need to detect collisions against bunny geometry rather than against masses/particles. I have a cool shot of two dead intersecting bunnies, + it would probably solve bugs like where (hehe he said bugs) a bunny's legs can intersect each other.

Not sure how possible it would be to get that at reasonable speeds :/ I could fix the bunny legs intersecting though

I won a level despite being dead (The last enemy bunny died a split second before me) ó I suspect the logic needs to be "all enemies are dead and player is alive at end of level".

Makes sense... *fixed* :)

Sometimes when a new level loads; the enemies already have blood on them. Also; not sure if this is intentional, but you have far less health the second time around if you die during a level.

Sounds like it's not loading the levels correctly on your system :/ How much RAM do you have?

I've got a small suggestion to make as well; is it possible for the rabbit to move around to face an opponent by a 'lock on' key ? ~ For close-in encounters, it can be frustrating if a rabbit runs around behind you & it takes a couple of seconds to re-adjust your position; usually you have to run off manically for a second or so so that you aren't in their line of fire while you re-adjust.

That would probably be useful. Right now though you can just turn the camera to face them and press 'w' to face them, and attacks automatically face the enemy.

Also; not being able to perform kicks/etc. when out of range of a target; is this something that will remain in the game?

I think so. It doesn't seem like it would make sense to attack when nothing is in range, and people would probably get more tired of the moves from seeing them so often.

[OneSadCookie]

Can you tweak back-flip so it's possible to "chain" them without having to turn around and run a step in the middle?

[David]

Ok, but I'll only let you do two in a row :envy: Handsprings are faster than running and it would be a bit silly to outrun people by handspringing everywhere :p

[David]

New version at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit
Edit: small update http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit

New stuff:
-Sneak attack
-Finishing move
-Cracks in walls (if you hit someone into them too hard)
-Somewhat better AI
-Some bug fixes
-A couple new levels
-Fixed some texture stretching
-Lowered detail in lowest detail level a bit

[David]

Yet another update
http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix2).sit

[Najdorf]

oh,my... this game is gettin detailed...
Of course the usual:shock: when I see this... I don' t have the slightest idea of how you code polygon animation. That should be the bigest part of the code, right? Are the animations "coded" or
made with some tool? Is it hard?
How many "lines"?
How long is the AI code?
You seem to get the job done at impressive speed...:shock:
Do you work on it much? Say how much per day?
Is it gonna have other animals or only rabbits?
How do you think will be the story? there will be levels, missions?
Again, impressive job. You will really make a lot of money with this...;)

[OneSadCookie]

My strategy for level two is to run to the right side of the block, climb up, then immediately bunny-kick the bunny who's now opposite me. On three occasions now, that move has been countered by the other bunny, who's way over the other side of the block. I just get teleported into his arms and slammed against the ground.

On that note, I think the auto-kill counter to the bunny kick is just too "swingy"; each time you perform the move you're playing Russian roulette. Whilst I agree such a powerful move needs a powerful counter, I don't think it should be an auto-death.

Bunnies are still somewhat suicidal...

[OneSadCookie]

Under the same circumstances as above, I've now hit the wrong guy as opposed to being countered by him...

I had a weird thing happen where despite being set on high detail, all of a sudden I had low-detail rabbits with screwed-up textures.

I think somersaulting over a dead bunny should throw the body up behind you to hit your pursuers :) At any rate, make it have a similar effect to the normal finisher so you can do it whilst moving at speed :)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Najdorf
I don' t have the slightest idea of how you code poligon animation. That should be the bigest part of the code, right? Are the animations "coded" or
made with some tool?Look in the Data folder. You can see all the animations for the moves (there's a lot) - they're probably in some custom format.

Originally posted by Najdorf
Is it gonna have other animals or only rabbits?
How do you think will be the story? there will be levels, missions?Hehe. http://wolfire.emuscene.com ;)

[Johan]

Great improvements on the newer versions. It really plays great. I have some thoughts, though.

* It's way to fast (for me at least). In slowmo it plays great, I have the time to block and counter-block. In realtime I just end up bashing shift and attack, hoping to hit something. It gets kinda boring in slowmo after a while though, so I think something like 75% of the current game speed would be optimal for me. I might be the only one having problems with the speed, but I'd really appreciate the option.

* Bunny-kick still have problems with collisions. It's a pain in the ass when you finally have the chance for a clean hit and you just float by hitting nothing.

* I will also need a crossbow or some similar projectile weapon (stone, slingshot, bazooka etc) to shoot fleeing rabbits with ;)

.johan

[Parsap]

Originally posted by JPersson
* It's way to fast (for me at least). In slowmo it plays great, I have the time to block and counter-block. In realtime I just end up bashing shift and attack, hoping to hit something. It gets kinda boring in slowmo after a while though, so I think something like 75% of the current game speed would be optimal for me. I might be the only one having problems with the speed, but I'd really appreciate the option.

Seconded. I think 85% speed would be perfect.

[Darkgold]

Just so David can get an idea of how many people think its too fast, I third that.

[w_reade]

I sort of think it's too fast too, but I'm generally quite lame at fighting games. It doesn't actually feel much faster than most other fighting games I can think of, but I'd certainly appreciate the opportunity to tweak the speed.

The high speed combined with the difficulty of facing the opponent do add up, though. For the final version I reckon you want the first enemies you come upon to be a fair bit easier than they are at the moment - two rabbits can make mincemeat of me in a couple of seconds if I'm a bit hesitant.

[macboy]

Well... I don't exactly 5th that because I'm only getting about 20 FPS on OS X :p and you can just run then stop then hit them then run and stop and hit, etc. :sneaky:

[AJ Infinity]

Originally posted by Najdorf
oh,my... this game is gettin detailed...
Of course the usual:shock: when I see this... I don' t have the slightest idea of how you code polygon animation. That should be the bigest part of the code, right? Are the animations "coded" or
made with some tool? Is it hard?
How many "lines"?
How long is the AI code?
You seem to get the job done at impressive speed...:shock:
Do you work on it much? Say how much per day?
Is it gonna have other animals or only rabbits?
How do you think will be the story? there will be levels, missions?
Again, impressive job. You will really make a lot of money with this...;)

David probably using the keyframe animation editor he made for glFighters and Black Shades.

AI isn't that tough, under 500 lines I suppose. But then again, I don't do much 3D work so I may be wrong...

if(player.isKicking && player.isLeftOfBunny){
bunny.kickLeft();
}

The code is DEFINITELY more than that there. With specific instances of bunnies, etc.

BTW, I don't download new builds of this game anymore because
1. It's too addictive
2. It's a timewaster
3. I'm jealous and I feel tough competion is going to be in uDevGame this year :)

[macboy]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
3. I'm jealous and I feel tough competion is going to be in uDevGame this year :) This can't be his uDG entry because he's already shown it to the public (or at least the public here ;) )

[Najdorf]

Also he must put the game free if he puts it on the contest... or not?

[AJ Infinity]

macboy: Aah, good. Lugaru really looks like it's going to STOMP H2O graphics wise (3D, OpenGL, FPS over 40, skeletal animation, etc). Gameplay wise and cutscene wise, maybe not. BTW, H2O's getting sorta a makeover in this build. That's why y'all haven't seen the beta yet. Plus I'm trying to earn money to be able to fund my new webhost. $10 a month or whatever's alot. I get this weird feeling there's going to be a LightWave 8 this year and will need to spend like $500 or so. That's what I'm saving up for. :D

[macboy]

Originally posted by Najdorf
Also he must put the game free if he puts it on the contest... or not? No, it can be shareware. Just has to be open source. (Am I right? :?: )

[David]

Think of it as 'hard' mode right now :) I'll be sure to add some kind of difficulty settings in the final... or I could just add a speed multiplier in the config right now...
Ok, did both. :)

Difficulty is from 0-2,
2: what it is right now
1: You have a bit more health, enemies are a bit slower, don't have to face enemies to counter
0: like 1 but more so

Gamespeed multiplier is added also.

oh,my... this game is gettin detailed...
Of course the usual when I see this... I don' t have the slightest idea of how you code polygon animation. That should be the bigest part of the code, right? Are the animations "coded" or
made with some tool? Is it hard?
How many "lines"?
How long is the AI code?
You seem to get the job done at impressive speed...
Do you work on it much? Say how much per day?
Is it gonna have other animals or only rabbits?
How do you think will be the story? there will be levels, missions?

Animations are made with an animation editor that I wrote, based on the Black Shades one (not GLFighters though), and no, it's not very hard :)
I wrote 15,519 lines so far
AI code is about 400 lines
I work on it... way too much. :p I'd say at least an hour or two a day.
I'm going to try and have wolves and rabbits (and that weird hawk that circles around your head for some reason)

I'm thinking the story will start with the death/kidnapping (your character isn't sure) of your family, and then either you will go out and explore fallout-like, or if that's too difficult it will be a more linear sequence of levels like most action-adventure games

Again, impressive job. You will really make a lot of money with this...

Thanks, I hope so :D

OneSadCookie: You're right, I think I'll try and fix that by just making the kick and counter do less damage. Eventually I'll have to add some 'real' pathfinding so the AI is less stupid and doesn't jump off ledges and run into trees :p
Somersaulting thing sounds good, I'll have to look into it. No idea why the models are messing up though :/ Probably another memory leak somewhere... I'll find them all eventually :)

Still working on rabbit kick collision :/ Maybe I'll make the collision radius bigger for the player's rabbit kick than the AI's :)

I will also need a crossbow or some similar projectile weapon (stone, slingshot, bazooka etc) to shoot fleeing rabbits with

Definitely. Actually I just started work on throwing knives yesterday :ninja:

Yeah I probably will not enter this in the next uDG, but might enter something else if I'm done in time.

Gameplay wise and cutscene wise, maybe not.

We'll see :sneaky:

[Parsap]

Top quality work david. :cool:

[Parsap]

I have an idea. How about enabling the cool motion blur effect if you're moving above a certain speed? E.g. if you just get rabbit kicked or you fall off a cliff.

[David]

Parhaps :p

Added a knife, can't throw it yet though
http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Knife.jpg

[erazorhead]

i thought it was too fast for a while too. maybe it is. however, this game has a very smooth (if a bit steep) learning curve; i got a lot better at it long before it got boring (still isn't boring). it doesn't seem too fast to me now. with a training level at the beginning and a gradual and steady increase in difficulty throughout the game, a difficulty setting may be unnecessary. although the enemies may have to be stupider in the first few levels.

[erazorhead]

ok have now played new build (was in hawai'i last few days).

christ the new moves are savage :) especially the attack you can use on unconscious enemies. i would like it if nailing another enemy with this did more damage, since it's pretty hard. but either way, love it. also the environment damage (crunched rock effect) is excellent. new rock texture looks a lot better. might have to update the bark texture now that it's not super-stretched.

new levels: also excellent. especially last one.

the combat is the most engaging and interesting part of the game. i would say it is the 'meat' of the game. in the new version there are a couple of elements which, for me, impede it in undesirable ways.

1) rabbits running for help. i think this should happen in the game, but far less often. this would still make sense: assuming the enemy is a wolf, would your average dumb, aggressive wolf really be that afraid of a rabbit, even if the rabbit had punched him a couple times? it's counterinstinctual for a wolf to run from a rabbit, especially if the wolf were angry. but all this is just a justification; the real reason it should happen less often is because it really breaks up the flow in gameplay. i sometimes spend more time chasing enemies than fighting them and that makes the game less fun.

also it would play better if you had a wee little 'grace period', where you knew your enemy was about to run and you had to nail them really quickly. this could be an enemy hopping/stepping back, pausing for a sec, stepping back, then turning tail and running (a kind of nervous withdrawl that breaks into running away). really, any distinctive animation that shows the enemy is afraid and about to run, yet gives you a little window of time where you can still hit him, would be great.

2) darkness/blurriness effects.
2a) screen darkening and double-vision effects. they are too much. fighting with them on is more frustrating and i feel less 'in' the game when i am frustrated. it seems like there is some place for these effects in the game, though. maybe much more subtle, or less often. i do like how they are on when my character is dead/unconscious.

HOWEVER, (here is where i went off on a really long "brilliant" idea about something that should happen in the game, which i decided to delete, maybe i'll tell you later)

2b) screen flashes black when you're hit. this does work, and is consistent with my few real-life experiences of being hit in the head ;). however, it is distracting and a little annoying. it 'felt' a lot better, and stronger too, with just a camera shake. i vote for the old camera shake.

a couple other smaller things, but i have to pick someone up so maybe i'll get to them later (or not :) ) KEEP IT UP! :D

[macboy]

This may not count as a true problem because it only happens under certain circumstances using the editor, but when you delete all the rabbits you sorta freeze (like I told you that day but didn't have a screenshot).

(BTW, you can't turn the music off, I tried to get better performance, but didn't work :( )

[Parsap]

Originally posted by erazorhead
2b) screen flashes black when you're hit. this does work, and is consistent with my few real-life experiences of being hit in the head ;).

In my experience, it's more of a white flash. The "black flash" is when you close your eyes when you're hit or right before you're hit, but the actualy impact causes whiteness.

[Najdorf]

but if you are really hit hard, an interesting esotheric theory argues that you see blue with red spots...;)

[David]

Just made damage effects option :) It's set to off by default and toggles black flash/blurriness. I like it on because it's easier to tell how damaged you are, but don't want to force it on anyone.

You're right about enemies running away, but I think it's mostly a problem since you have no way to stop them right now, that should be fixed with throwing knives :cool: I'll make it so they're less likely to run for help also. However I think it would be accurate in terms of realism, because this their lives we're talking about, if they hear about some rabbit guy who's rebelling and slaughtering wolves left and right I think they'd be kinda scared. I guess there should be some kind of reputation measure, so if you kill enemies vs. knocking them out they'll run away more and fight back more mercilessly, or they could have different personalities or something.

I think I'll have them pause for half a second before running, maybe there will be a separate animation for that later.

Knocking bodies into enemies does do a lot of damage, but it doesn't seem like it because there's no sound for it. I'll have to fix that :)

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David
Just made damage effects option :) It's set to off by default and toggles black flash/blurriness. I like it on because it's easier to tell how damaged you are, but don't want to force it on anyone.
i think there must be a middle ground here; a way that incorporates this effect without it impeding gameplay. but in the meantime the option is appreciated :)


You're right about enemies running away, but I think it's mostly a problem since you have no way to stop them right now, that should be fixed with throwing knives
ahhh this never even occured to me :) i hadn't thought about the future of the game (weapons etc)


However I think it would be accurate in terms of realism, because this their lives we're talking about, if they hear about some rabbit guy who's rebelling and slaughtering wolves left and right I think they'd be kinda scared.
just depends on how 'human' they are i guess; how much they're operating on logic vs instinct.


I guess there should be some kind of reputation measure, so if you kill enemies vs. knocking them out they'll run away more and fight back more mercilessly, or they could have different personalities or something.
wow, that would be something. it might be too much for this kind of game though -- too much to keep in mind as you play.

[Parsap]

I think different colored rabbits should have different traits. (Not racist.)

[skyhawk]

Originally posted by Parsap
I think different colored rabbits should have different traits. (Not racist.)

You silly racist! You facist! I can't believe you man!!! [Bleeding from the sarcasm]

But this is a good idea. Some rabbits are faster. Some can jump higher. Some are bulkier and can take more damage and kick harder.

[jamie]

http://www.spacerad.com/lara/taxonomy.html

about half way down the page are links to all the know species of rabbits, some with photos.

:)

[David]

They do have different traits, but I'm not sure I want it to be because of different species, and since you won't be fighting rabbits much anyways... :p

[erazorhead]

...."much"?

(registers www.lugarurumours.com)

[David]

Oops gave away too much :blush:

:p j/k

[erazorhead]

so with more play, the blurriness and darkness effects have come to bother me less. maybe tone them down a tad, and make them an option.

sometimes a rabbit running for help will not run to the nearest rabbit, sometimes he runs right past several unnoticing rabbits before he gets to the one he 'wants'.

after playing more and reflecting more, the overall speed could actually come down a bit. i'd say 90% of current speed would feel perfect for me.

something that has come to bother me more is how the other rabbits always strafe while i cannot. should turner always face the direction the camera is facing? or maybe just while he's not moving? i don't know. but the ability to strafe as the enemies do would help with this slightly unfair advantage they have in fights. would some kind of targeting system work? ..no, probably not... it just feels like i should be able to move around while still being able to parry at any time, like they can.

HOW do you sneak up on someone? i've done it successfully only one time. is there any way to "creep" up on them? it seems they hear as well as their enormous ears would imply :)
(edit) i found you can sneak up on them by only jumping, never walking or creeping. how odd. i guess they can't hear jumping or landing?

here's something that drives me crazy. someone starts running away, so i start chasing. i figure when i'm close enough, i'll dispatch them with the jumping kick, so i start holding down the mouse button as i run. just as i get close enough to land a jumping kick on them, turner does a spin kick (because i'm holding down the mouse button) which does not hit because they are of course running away. ARG. could you make it so that, in order to do the spin kick, you have to be close enough to hit with it when you FIRST click the mouse? (does that make sense?)

maybe hitting shift at JUST the right time could give you a smooth landing from the jumping kick.

an enemy's attack can still make you dizzy (double vision etc) even if you parry it. same with a parry even if you escape it. intentional?

turner leaves no footprints when he 'creeps' (walks while crouching). is this intentional? can enemies see/recognize footprints? if no, then it seems like creeping should still leave footprints. if yes, they do (or will) recognize footprints, then that is awesome.

strange teeny animation glitch.. during back handspring, right foot or leg seems to spin around really quickly for a split second. similar to old foot-spin-while-running glitch. only noticeable in slow-motion.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by jamie
http://www.spacerad.com/lara/taxonomy.html
about half way down the page are links to all the know species of rabbits, some with photos.

if you want to see some rabbit pictures, then http://www.rabbit.org/graphics/fun/netbunnies/ has about ten frigging thousand. i actually looked at most of these (hundreds) trying to design a rabbit texture.

on a totally different subject; david, i just stumbled across http://www.wolfpackstudios.com/ ...another computer game publisher with a similar name/logo/visual identity as you :(. thought you should know, maybe you'll want to set yourself apart from these guys a little more. or just say screw 'em.

[Parsap]

Originally posted by erazorhead
on a totally different subject; david, i just stumbled across http://www.wolfpackstudios.com/ ...another computer game publisher with a similar name/logo/visual identity as you :(. thought you should know, maybe you'll want to set yourself apart from these guys a little more. or just say screw 'em.

Whoa, good catch. A new logo is definitely needed.

[Parsap]

More Lugaru news please :D

[Wrisc]

Not sure if this has been brought up before (or resurrected in the latest build; I can't download it though ~ it keeps truncating), but is the rabbit supposed to be able to fly about a half a kilometre ?

If you move the mouse so that you have an overhead isometric view of the rabbit's front-side (not sure if its left or right, only one of them works), if you jump and hold down jump.. you can almost fly; I think the max distance I've cleared is about 30 normal rabbit jumps with this method. ~ is there a 'record demo' function in Lugaru? if there is I can show you what I mean, as it is, it's hard to explain

[David]

I've never seen that bug, please let me know if it happens in this version too :/

New build up at:
http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit

New stuff
-Misc. bug fixes
-Configurable difficulty
-Configurable game speed
-Tweaked AI
-Throwing knives

It's almost impossible to creep up on someone without them noticing at the last minute, the trick is to kill them before they have time to react. If you run up at them and they notice you you can still 'sneak attack' them before they turn around.

Yeah creeping isn't supposed to leave footprints, because they notice them :) (or they should if I didn't mess up)

About WolfPack... screw 'em. If they sued me I could bask in free publicity, and then would win anyways because I've never seen their logo before and based the name and logo on my dog Wolfie, whom I named before that company existed.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David
About WolfPack... screw 'em. If they sued me I could bask in free publicity, and then would win anyways because I've never seen their logo before and based the name and logo on my dog Wolfie, whom I named before that company existed.

oh i didn't mean that you copied them or that they would sue or anything.. just thought you should know, and decide if it mattered to have a totally unique 'company' identity. although i'm sure any imagery has been used by somebody. :)

[David]

Ok thanks :) I gave up on having a totally unique company identity, when things like "Burning Monkey" etc. are already taken, it's kinda hard to find new ones without being even more silly

[erazorhead]

what about "nebulous cudgel replicator, inc."

you could call your company that, it's not taken (http://www.google.com/search?q=nebulous+cudgel+replicator+inc&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8).

[OneSadCookie]

No longer runs on my box. Just bounces a couple of times in the Dock then vanishes.

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000938

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x90982ff8 in glDeleteTextures
#1 0x001d4c8c in Weapons::_ct(void)
#2 0x001d4a04 in _sinit_:Globals_cpp
#3 0x0019cef4 in 0x19cef4

Don't do GL stuff until you have a GL context :p

In the old build turning music off didn't turn music off... is this fixed?

[Mazilurik]

I get the same crash as OneSadCookie...

In the previous build, I also got a strange bug where the keymappings were completely screwed up (I hadn't changed the keys from the defaults, but 'w' was running right, 'a' was crouching, 's' was jumping; the built-in keys such as slow-motion seemed to be working okay, though). I haven't been keeping up on the builds much recently, though, so I'm not sure if this was specific to the previous build or not.

[David]

Haha I'm such a moron... forgot the ~ in front of the weapons class destructor :p
Why is it that so many bugs seem to have no effect under 9 but kill X? *shrug* Thanks for finding where the problem was :) It should be fixed now.

Maz it sounds like your config .txt was missing several lines... maybe I released an update without a new config.

Yup music is fixed (or at least it should be)

http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit

[NCarter]

Fabulous game! I like it! The difficulty is pitched about right for me, and I love the freedom of movement and the way the camera control works. Very nice.

You might want to know about a few bugs/strangenesses that I've discovered, although they might not relate to the current version because I'm still downloading it. Firstly, on the level with two bunnies on a block under a big slab, if I climb onto the block and drop-kick the one on the right, sometimes I hit the one on the left instead (even though they're nowhere near one another). Sometimes I get countered instead, and I suddenly teleport over to the other guy who finishes the counter. Very odd.

If I'm running away from an enemy and they kick me just as I jump away, I get blasted halfway across the map! Maybe you should implement air resistance or something to keep the maximum speed down.

Occasionally I find that some of my opponents are already dead by the time I reach them, usually lying around in strange contorted postures. The funniest thing I saw was one guy lying in a twisted heap on the floor in a heap while another one was buried head first halfway up a wall with his legs hanging down! Perhaps you're accidentally creating two bunnies in the same place or something.

Sometimes I knock someone down, and when they get up again, they sidestep away forever unless I hit them again.

Also, is it deliberate that the bad guys sometimes don't move? It's not a bad thing, because it makes them more unpredictable, but perhaps they should alternate between standing and walking instead.

Oops... lost the download again. Looks like I won't be trying the new version just yet! Perhaps you should get Lugaru hosted somewhere else - how about here at iDevGames? :)

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by David
Maz it sounds like your config .txt was missing several lines... maybe I released an update without a new config.

I reinstalled the latest version (and the bug fix) and tried playing it without modifying the config file, and the bug is still present. It's definitely something wrong with the way the config file is being read; all the options through "Trilinear" seem to work properly, but the setting for "Gamespeed" is actually the forward key, "Difficulty" is the back key, etc.; basically, the key bindings are moved up three spaces in the config file, the last three spaces are ignored, and there are no settings for gamespeed, difficulty, or damage effects. (System: G4/933, OS X 10.2.5)

Update: I downloaded Lugaru again and everything worked okay; I guess I must have gotten an older build last time I downloaded, since the throwing knife hadn't been available either. Everything's working fine now.

[erazorhead]

some cool knife work. however i crash with an "unexpectedly quit" dialog box whenever i try to clean the knife (shift-e)
i can't throw the knife, q does nothing

[Najdorf]

Hey, I' m quite new (4-5 months?) to iDev, but I' ve never seen such a long thread... is it a record?

[macboy]

It's more a been-out-a-while-and-always-updated-game-thread :lol:

[OneSadCookie]

I'm pretty sure it's a record.

I can't throw either, and I unexpectedly quit with shift-e. Knife makes the game sooo easy :p

I want to be able to draw the knife while running.

[akisha]

Knife works fine for meÖ I'm in 9. I think the knife should be less powerful. Also, the counter-rabbit-kick should take around 90% of the rabbit's total healthÖ not strong enough now. The enemies should also counter the rabbit-kick less often. Good work with the knife though!

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by akisha
Knife works fine for me? I'm in 9. I think the knife should be less powerful. Also, the counter-rabbit-kick should take around 90% of the rabbit's total health? not strong enough now. The enemies should also counter the rabbit-kick less often. Good work with the knife though!

well one thing about the knife is you probably won't always have it in the final game. i like how it is now, it makes you somewhat more formidable. realistic.

i disagree about the counter-rabbit-kick. if you're parried too often, you have to get on the ball with the parry-escapes!

i found out you can't throw the knife unless you're reasonably close to them. knife throwing works fine, i realized, i was just never close enough.

[akisha]

Originally posted by erazorhead

i disagree about the counter-rabbit-kick. if you're parried too often, you have to get on the ball with the parry-escapes!

You can't escape the counter rabbit-kick (at least I can't)



i found out you can't throw the knife unless you're reasonably close to them. knife throwing works fine, i realized, i was just never close enough.
I can kill every single enemy in the game on the hardest difficulty just by throwing the knife, no variation at allÖ waaaaay too easy.

[erazorhead]

ok here's a big-ol'-list of bugs and suggestions

BUGS
----------
- unexpectedly quits on level 3 (floating level) VERY often, almost always when the enemy or i first attack, but also other times. this is new to the "knife" version.

- sometimes (during slow-motion only) hitting the enemy with a sweep will cause them to, when they hit the ground, bounce very high and die... as if they had just fallen from a great height.

- very easy to get a cheap kill by crouching and clicking mouse very fast with knife drawn; a lot of times when the sweep hits, you will start stabbing them as they fall to the ground, killing them instantly. (might take a couple tries to reproduce successfully)

- entering 'hanging' position while knife is in hand causes knife to teleport strangely then fly back into your hand.

- minor animation glitches while doing back handspring. only really noticable in slow-motion.


JUST SORT OF BOTHERSOME
----------
- can't draw knife while jumping or running or somersaulting. should at least be able to do it while running.

- knocking into someone in midair has unpredictable effects. sometimes it will hit you really hard, sometimes hit them really hard, sometimes both, and sometimes nothing.

- if the knife is sticking into the underside of an enemy, you can't recover it (except rarely) without somehow flipping them over

- camera should be aimed more upwards. it should point at least at his head, preferably higher.

- should be able to make smaller jumps. the 'minimum' is an enormous leap

- some kind of attack you can do in the air. my friend suggested being able to throw the knife from the air, i'm not sure how that would balance. at least a punch or kick or something.

- should be able to move left or right while hanging. also enemies shouldn't be able to see you when you're hanging off the edge of the platform they're on (unless they're very close, maybe)

- still think there should be a better animation for the punch counter-parry (just the somersault animation would work)


JUST SUGGESTIONS
-------------
- the same friend suggested wall-jumping. i think this could work quite well. in fact, i'd like to see turner able to not only wall jump, but also grab onto a tree with one hand and hang onto the trunk with his feet braced against it, able to leap again when someone walks underneath him. hmm... now that i type this out it seems a little far-fetched. but wall jumping at least might work.

- a short, semitransparent "trail" on the knife when thrown. maybe it could glow or twinkle a little when it's sticking into an enemy or the ground.

- is the second mouse button thing impossible? i asked before but as i recall you weren't sure if it was doable.

ok that's it for now

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by akisha
You can't escape the counter rabbit-kick
you sure can, i do it all the time. practice in slow-motion, maybe.


I can kill every single enemy in the game on the hardest difficulty just by throwing the knife, no variation at all? waaaaay too easy.
really? they never duck under the knife? the only time i'm ever confident the knife will hit is when they haven't seen me yet, or they're in mid-air. otherwise they duck under it about half of the time. this is on medium difficulty. you're sure it's on the hardest difficulty?

[akisha]

Originally posted by erazorhead

you sure can, i do it all the time. practice in slow-motion, maybe.


I can't. Even in slow-motion. Ever. Is the rabbit-kick the jump-kick? The one preformed by pressing space while clicking and running?

Originally posted by erazorhead
the only time i'm ever confident the knife will hit is when they haven't seen me yet, or they're in mid-air. otherwise they duck under it about half of the time. this is on medium difficulty. you're sure it's on the hardest difficulty?

I always just get them to jump. And yeah, it's difficulty 2.

[erazorhead]

oh i think i misunderstood you. you cannot escape the counter for the jumping kick, that is correct. when you said rabbit kick, i thought of the roundhouse. sorry.

[David]

Update: I downloaded Lugaru again and everything worked okay; I guess I must have gotten an older build last time I downloaded, since the throwing knife hadn't been available either. Everything's working fine now.

That's good :)

If I'm running away from an enemy and they kick me just as I jump away, I get blasted halfway across the map! Maybe you should implement air resistance or something to keep the maximum speed down.

Hmm probably, but I don't see anything wrong with getting blasted halfway across the map :) As long as you don't actually fall OFF the map it should be ok.

Occasionally I find that some of my opponents are already dead by the time I reach them, usually lying around in strange contorted postures. The funniest thing I saw was one guy lying in a twisted heap on the floor in a heap while another one was buried head first halfway up a wall with his legs hanging down! Perhaps you're accidentally creating two bunnies in the same place or something.

That IS really weird... I have no idea how this happens. If two rabbits are created in the same place it doesn't do this. Does this happen on a specific level, or just randomly?

Sometimes I knock someone down, and when they get up again, they sidestep away forever unless I hit them again.

Also, is it deliberate that the bad guys sometimes don't move? It's not a bad thing, because it makes them more unpredictable, but perhaps they should alternate between standing and walking instead.

Hmm neither of these are really supposed to happen. Is it just random or are there specific times when this happens?

some cool knife work. however i crash with an "unexpectedly quit" dialog box whenever i try to clean the knife (shift-e)
i can't throw the knife, q does nothing

Fixed the cleaning bug (I think)
You have to be pretty close to throw the knife, 30 feet or so is about the limit.

Knife works fine for meÖ I'm in 9. I think the knife should be less powerful. Also, the counter-rabbit-kick should take around 90% of the rabbit's total healthÖ not strong enough now. The enemies should also counter the rabbit-kick less often. Good work with the knife though!

I kinda like keeping the counter-rabbit-kick damage down, because it really sucks when they counter yours and you just die. They counter it so often because I want to emphasize the more close-range stuff because I find it more interesting :) There are certain times when they can't counter it (if they're distracted/ facing wrong direction/etc)

I can kill every single enemy in the game on the hardest difficulty just by throwing the knife, no variation at allÖ waaaaay too easy.

They never dodge it? I'm going to make it so that if they dodge the knife they will go pick it up, I tried to balance the current version by just having it a bit hard to find if they dodge it.

- unexpectedly quits on level 3 (floating level) VERY often, almost always when the enemy or i first attack, but also other times. this is new to the "knife" version.

Weird, This is probably because of OS X's hyper strict pointers, I guess I should try the OS X version some more. Unless this is happening on OS 9 also...

- sometimes (during slow-motion only) hitting the enemy with a sweep will cause them to, when they hit the ground, bounce very high and die... as if they had just fallen from a great height.

Hmm strange :/ I guess it would make sense for me to make sure they can't bounce harder than they fell :p

- very easy to get a cheap kill by crouching and clicking mouse very fast with knife drawn; a lot of times when the sweep hits, you will start stabbing them as they fall to the ground, killing them instantly. (might take a couple tries to reproduce successfully)

That's kinda intentional :cool: I suppose I should make it a bit harder to do.

- entering 'hanging' position while knife is in hand causes knife to teleport strangely then fly back into your hand.

Hmm... *fixed*

- can't draw knife while jumping or running or somersaulting. should at least be able to do it while running.

Makes sense. *fixed*

- if the knife is sticking into the underside of an enemy, you can't recover it (except rarely) without somehow flipping them over

Yup. Flip them over :) Knock them around a bit with the shift+click

- camera should be aimed more upwards. it should point at least at his head, preferably higher.

Ok. *fixed*

- should be able to make smaller jumps. the 'minimum' is an enormous leap

- some kind of attack you can do in the air. my friend suggested being able to throw the knife from the air, i'm not sure how that would balance. at least a punch or kick or something.

- should be able to move left or right while hanging. also enemies shouldn't be able to see you when you're hanging off the edge of the platform they're on (unless they're very close, maybe)

These would be good, but as it is now I don't think any would be really useful. I want to make an air throw though (i.e. if you land on someone/ collide in the air you can do some interesting move)

- still think there should be a better animation for the punch counter-parry (just the somersault animation would work)

Maybe, I kinda like it right now though. If he can land on his feet, he might as well.

Walljumps would be good, *adds to list*

I actually just added motion blur to thrown knives which should make it easier to see whats going on.

I might switch to carbon events to do the second mouse button but it seems like a lot of hassle.

I always just get them to jump. And yeah, it's difficulty 2.
erazorhead.

Oh. I guess I'll have to make them flip or something to avoid them :)

[NCarter]

Originally posted by David
Hmm probably, but I don't see anything wrong with getting blasted halfway across the map :) As long as you don't actually fall OFF the map it should be ok.

It can be a really long way sometimes. Seems a bit odd to be able to reach terminal velocity horizontally!

That IS really weird... I have no idea how this happens. If two rabbits are created in the same place it doesn't do this. Does this happen on a specific level, or just randomly?

Randomly, but most frequently on the level with a grid of blocks. Thinking again, maybe one bunny is walking off a block and falling onto the head of another one.

(Re: endless sidestepping and lack of movement) Hmm neither of these are really supposed to happen. Is it just random or are there specific times when this happens?

At random. Sometimes some bunnies move and some don't. It actually seems to be worse if I've been really kicking the crap out of them on the previous level!

I also mentioned a bug where I rabbit kick one guy and hit another who's somewhere else. I've now seen this on the level with lots of trees, so it's not just a quirk of that other level.

Weird, This is probably because of OS X's hyper strict pointers, I guess I should try the OS X version some more. Unless this is happening on OS 9 also...

If I were you I'd do the majority of my testing on Mac OS X. It'll help you spot any pointer access that misses your application's space much more quickly.

I might switch to carbon events to do the second mouse button but it seems like a lot of hassle.

Carbon Events are great! It looks fiddly at first, but it turns out to be a lot easier in the end because you only have to handle events that you're actually interested in. When I Carbonised my game and redid it with Carbon Events, it wasn't really a big problem.

BTW, I still can't download more than about 2-4Mb of the archive! How about doing a segmented version?

[Wrisc]

That IS really weird... I have no idea how this happens. If two rabbits are created in the same place it doesn't do this. Does this happen on a specific level, or just randomly?

Regarding the bunnies dying by the time you reach them, etc. I think it's directly related to the fall damage. If you go to level 2, and mess around on the block, about one in every four rounds yields one of these mysterio deaths. If you're on the block a the time it happens, you'll see one of the AIs walk off it, hit the ground (the music change), fly back up, and hit it again. The exact same animation as if you go flying off the blocks and hit the ground on level 3

If you're really lucky, both of the AIs die this way at the same time =D

[codemattic]

Anyone else besides me really want to fight the Bunny against Ian's Ancient Arena Dwarf?

[David]

Onesadcookie: Way back you posted

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000938

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x90982ff8 in glDeleteTextures
#1 0x001d4c8c in Weapons::_ct(void)
#2 0x001d4a04 in _sinit_:Globals_cpp
#3 0x0019cef4 in 0x19cef4
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe I'm just an OS X newbie but how do you get this? It would be very helpful :)


I'll see what I can do about randomly dead or stationary bunnies o-o
So how could one go about converting to carbon events?

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David
Maybe I'm just an OS X newbie but how do you get this? It would be very helpful :)
correct me if i'm wrong, but this is output to /Applications/Utilities/Console.app
very useful to programmers, i gather.

[macboy]

The new build is AWESOME! I just got back from Chicago and started playing. A few bugs, though:

- The rabbits still sometimes attack you when you're using the map editor
- Wouldn't even start up under OS X - had to reboot into 9
- Knife "auto-lock" makes throwing knives a little too easy - maybe allow it so you can throw from anywhere (maybe even into switches and stuff) but it always goes straight
- You can't change the map from snow to grass and vice versa anymore unless you change the key for sheathing/unsheathing
- Picking up the knife should be easier, I had to get almost on top of it (wouldn't work standing up, had to crouch to get exactly right) to pick it up.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by macboy
- Wouldn't even start up under OS X - had to reboot into 9

did you download the fix?
http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by David
Maybe I'm just an OS X newbie but how do you get this? It would be very helpful :)

If you go to Console.app in /Applications/Utilities, it has a preference to automatically record crash logs. It also has a preference to automatically pop up in your face when it does record one.

[macboy]

Originally posted by erazorhead
did you download the fix?
http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit Not yet... Brian told me about that... I didn't notice it before... but the other problems still apply... I think :blush:

[erazorhead]

a few more things

- velocity in general seems kind of wonky in slow-motion.

- i've never had the problem where i find several enemies dead, although i have seen enemies kill one another while fighting me. it is usually one landing on the other, and the like. i, like ncarter, have also seen the bug where i think i'm hitting one enemy with the jumping kick but for some reason it hits the other one, who is a little ways away.

- as for the sweeping-then-immediately-stabbing-the-enemy "bug" (which you said was intentional), i don't think it needs to be completely removed from the game; just be more "picky"... often, after a sweep, i can do the stabbing motion and kill the other rabbit, except the knife does not appear to be even close to hitting them.

- after a logout and login, the constant crashing on the floating platform level seems to have disappeared. i'll let you know if it comes back (and post the output to the console if you'd like)

- it's bothersome to have to knock the enemy thirty or forty feet just to turn them over to get the knife (sometimes you have to do it several times to get the right-side-up)... maybe there could be an animation for flipping the enemy over and recovering the knife, that just took a little longer.

- i agree that as it is now, getting them to jump and then knifing them is easy... but i'm sure they will soon know how to flip to avoid flying knives.

These would be good, but as it is now I don't think any would be really useful.
i know i'm not the first person to mention that you should be able to jump a little less. also, it would be very useful if the enemies couldn't see you while you were hanging off their platform... hang until they walk up to you and turn around, then you pop up and attack them from behind. i also just really feel like i "should" be able to move sideways while hanging.

Maybe, I kinda like it right now though. If he can land on his feet, he might as well.
yeah, but as it is, he just teleports from upside-down flying through the air to crouching on the ground. just some transition would add a lot i think.

ALSO to anyone having trouble downloading, i'm uploading a mirror of the latest (knife) version now, i will post the URL when it's finished.

[erazorhead]

oh another thing; i was able to reproduce the really really long jump that someone mentioned earlier.

put the camera straight behind your character. now move it straight downward 45 degrees (so it points 45 degrees upward). now start running and hold down jump. keep the camera there throughout the jump. this jump is 200-300% as big as the normal one.

[macboy]

One more thing I've noticed: Sometimes when you're jumping with your knife drawn, you see something fly from your hand... I'd assume that's the knife... but you still have it when you land.

BTW, Loading screen does work on X now.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by macboy
BTW, Loading screen does work on X now.
not for me :/

got that level 3 crash again
crash report is here (http://www.rroland.net/misc/lugarucrash.txt)

got the mirror up for people having download problems

Latest (knife) Version (http://www.rroland.net/misc/Lugaru.sit)

Latest Bug Fix (required) (http://www.rroland.net/misc/Lugarufix.sit)

[NCarter]

Originally posted by David
So how could one go about converting to carbon events?

I did it by looking at the Mac OS X developer documentation for the Carbon Event Manager and writing a simple C++ class to set up event handlers and dispatch events to appropriate methods. I'd like to recommend some good sample code from Apple, but... I... can't find any. They've moved it!

The idea is that you install event handlers for the event kinds you're interested in, then call something like RunApplicationEventLoop() to have the system automatically call your handlers when an event occurs. This is more efficient than the old event model because you're not using processor time while waiting for events.

Provided your game is sufficiently well separated from your event handling code, you should be able to pull out all the old code and put in a new Carbon Events based version without any major changes. You might also want to look at using Carbon Timers for your game loop instead of busy looping (under Mac OS X at least). The only other thing to worry about is to make sure you don't throw a C++ exception out of a event handler (speaking from experience)!

Originally posted by erazorhead
got the mirror up for people having download problems


Thanks, erazorhead!

[David]

Update here (http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix2).sit)

I did it by looking at the Mac OS X developer documentation for the Carbon Event Manager and writing a simple C++ class to set up event handlers and dispatch events to appropriate methods. I'd like to recommend some good sample code from Apple, but... I... can't find any. They've moved it!

This is probably a stupid question, but where do you find the Mac OS X developer documentation for the Carbon Event Manager?

One more thing I've noticed: Sometimes when you're jumping with your knife drawn, you see something fly from your hand... I'd assume that's the knife... but you still have it when you land.

BTW, Loading screen does work on X now.

For me the loading screen seems to work on X for a few seconds and then stop... I have no idea why it's acting so strangely on some systems. Maybe it only messes up under jaguar? :/

Thanks for the crash report Erazor, I think I fixed that bug now.

[erazorhead]

yeah on my system there is no loading screen picture, and the progress percentage disappears at about 35%

in my mirror link above, i replaced the last bugfix with this new one (or get it here (http://www.rroland.net/misc/Lugarufix.sit))

[Wrisc]

Is there any way to take 'clean' screenshots of Lugaru ? I want to take a screenshot to demonstrate how to replicate the jumping bug, and possibly a couple of others

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by David
This is probably a stupid question, but where do you find the Mac OS X developer documentation for the Carbon Event Manager?

file:///Developer/Documentation/Carbon/carbon.html

[OneSadCookie]

I can't move (I think it's the latest version, I got it off erazorhead's mirror). Previous version works. I can toggle the map editor with shift-m and quit with command-q, but none of the movement keys do anything. Bouncing on the spot seems extra-fast.

[David]

Ah thanks I'll check that out. :)

Did you replace the config with the new one?

Judging by your 'symptoms' :p it sounds like you might be missing a piece of the config.txt which would make a difficulty setting of 2 become a gamespeed of 200% and such.

[David]

I use snapz pro to take screenshots, but haven't added an actual in-game screenshot key.

[Wrisc]

I don't like snapz pro much, so I guess i'll just try & explain the bug; it's easily replicatable.

1) Reposition the camera so that you are looking slightly down on the rabbit
2) Rotate the camera left (move the mouse right) till you are 45degrees from looking direct-on
3) Run a short distance keeping the camera like this & then Jump (hold the directional keys you're jumping in to jump indefinitely)

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie
file:///Developer/Documentation/Carbon/carbon.html

you're linking to something on your hard drive. :p we can't see the file

[OneSadCookie]

No David, I didn't use the new config :blush:

erazorhead: that URL will be valid for anyone running Mac OS X with the developer documentation installed.

[erazorhead]

BAH!
pardon my ignorance :blush:

[OneSadCookie]

Hmm, fix2 isn't much of a fix. Stabbing someone causes a crash like this:

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x0000006c

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x001e154c in XYZ::_mi(XYZ)
#1 0x00201294 in Person::DoStuff(void)
#2 0x001c6acc in 0x1c6acc
#3 0x001a1830 in DoUpdate(void)
#4 0x001a1a70 in IdleTimer
#5 0x90163230 in __CFRunLoopDoTimer
#6 0x90148d28 in __CFRunLoopRun
#7 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#8 0x969a3b70 in RunCurrentEventLoopInMode
#9 0x969a4310 in GetNextEventMatchingMask
#10 0x969a8054 in WNEInternal
#11 0x969adf0c in WaitNextEvent
#12 0x001a18c4 in WaitNextEventWrapper(unsigned short, EventRecord *, unsigned long, OpaqueRgnHandle *)
#13 0x001a1b2c in DoEvent(void)
#14 0x001a1de0 in main

[OneSadCookie]

Maybe rand() is trying to send me a message? Or maybe David has a more twisted sense of humor than we at first assumed...

http://203.79.121.211/~keith/Personal/lugaru%20smiley.jpg

(edit: anyone know why that isn't showing up inline?)

[erazorhead]

latest version crushes. i love it.

a bug that's popped up in the last couple of versions that i neglected to mention.... kind of hard to explain...

this happens occasionally, right from the beginning of a level until i beat it. everything seems normal, but if i start running then stop running, turner stays frozen in the running position he was in when i let go of the key (instead of going back to standing). jumping seems to work but when i release the jump button he drops like a ton of lead straight down to the ground. attacking seems to work but he stops in the position he hits the enemy in (like with his leg extended after a rabbit kick). sometimes he can't move at all, except he turns with the camera. it happens with enemies, too. it is a weird 'stuttery' effect, and i can hardly guess what could be causing it. maybe some of the animations aren't loading? i have no idea. but everything's back to normal if i can manage to beat the level.

weird.

anyways, on a totally different note, would it be possible to make the stab wound correspond exactly to where you stab them with the knife 'finishing' move? that would be a very nice touch.

[macboy]

Originally posted by erazorhead
a bug that's popped up in the last couple of versions that i neglected to mention.... kind of hard to explain...

this happens occasionally, right from the beginning of a level until i beat it. everything seems normal, but if i start running then stop running, turner stays frozen in the running position he was in when i let go of the key (instead of going back to standing). jumping seems to work but when i release the jump button he drops like a ton of lead straight down to the ground. attacking seems to work but he stops in the position he hits the enemy in (like with his leg extended after a rabbit kick). sometimes he can't move at all, except he turns with the camera. it happens with enemies, too. it is a weird 'stuttery' effect, and i can hardly guess what could be causing it. maybe some of the animations aren't loading? i have no idea. but everything's back to normal if i can manage to beat the level.That's what was happening to me a while ago... now it happens when you delete all the rabbits on the map editor.

BTW, you should be able to throw the knife while jumping... that would make a cool effect.

[erazorhead]

i do want to be able to throw the knife while jumping, but it might throw off the game balance... too easy to leap at an enemy from behind and throw just as you get in range? not sure how it would balance.

last night as i was falling asleep, i couldn't stop thinking about this game for some reason. i realized i would really like it if the throwing knife spun when you threw it, like how i learned to throw throwing knives. i think it would look sweet.

[macboy]

Originally posted by erazorhead
i do want to be able to throw the knife while jumping, but it might throw off the game balance... too easy to leap at an enemy from behind and throw just as you get in range? not sure how it would balance.That would be another reason why the knife should only throw straight down your line of sight. (Which I mentioned before)

[NCarter]

Thanks to erazorhead's mirror, I've been able to try out the knife version now. It's great! I find it's easiest to hang onto the knife and alternately slash the enemy then either trip them or run away until they collapse. Blimey, this game's gruesome!

I like the way the enemy panic and run around when they see a dead body. It's much better than Deus Ex (for example) in this respect, where the enemy just get bored of seeing corpses and ignore them after a while. The only thing that looks a bit weird at the moment is the way they take a direct bee-line towards you (or back home), even if there's an obstruction in the way. Since it would be a lot of effort to climb up a wall, I don't think they'd want to do it unless they really had to.

I have an odd suggestion, too.... I'd like to be able to be able to pick up bodies and put them down somewhere else. Why? I'd like to be able to hide bodies from the other bunnies without having to kick them over the horizon. Depending on how your plot pans out, it might also be a useful animation for dramatic reasons. Just a thought.

BTW, I don't really spend my free time concealing dead bodies, before anyone asks.... :?:

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by NCarter
BTW, I don't really spend my free time concealing dead bodies, before anyone asks.... :?:
yeah right... :p

i agree though, there should be another way to manipulate the bodies... something that would allow you to carry them and/or flip them over. maybe shift-Q could pick them up (since it's already 'pick up' - the knife).

[NCarter]

I've just noticed one quirk about this new version that I think is a step backwards. The way the directional controls affect air movement seems to have changed. Previously, if I jumped towards the camera using the back key, I could keep holding the back key to accelerate in that direction. If I turned the camera 180 degrees in mid-flight, I would need to switch to holding the forward key to maintain the same acceleration. Essentially, when in the air the direction keys accelerated relative to the direction the camera was facing. This felt extremely fluid and natural to me, and that's what I meant by 'freedom of movement' in my first post.

The new version seems to change this so that when in the air the directional controls are relative to the direction your character's facing in instead. Using the above example, if I jump towards the camera using the back key and then hold the back key, I actually decelerate and fall short. It's even worse if I jump towards the camera and use the left or right buttons, because I then accelerate right and left respectively. It feels counter-intuitive compared with the old system. After all, when you're on the ground, you always move relative to the view direction.

One more thing - could you add a switch to flip the mouse Y axis? I keep tripping over myself if I play Quake with my usual settings after playing Lugaru! :)

[erazorhead]

who on earth plays quake with 'invert mouse' on? if you move the mouse left to look left, why wouldn't you move the mouse up to look up? :)

[David]

That bloody smily is... interesting :p

Yeah the AI doesn't really have much in the way of pathfinding right now, it's on my list :)
So are blood decals based on exact locations, I'm definitely going to try and have that.

Picking up bodies could be good, or I could just make you drag them around or something.

NCarter: The messed up air control is a bug, I think I fixed it now though :)

[David]

Shouldn't be too hard to add an invert mouse toggle, I'll try that when I get home

[NCarter]

Originally posted by erazorhead
who on earth plays quake with 'invert mouse' on? if you move the mouse left to look left, why wouldn't you move the mouse up to look up? :)

Sorry, I'm a flight sim geek! Forward = dive, back = climb to me.

Originally posted by erazorhead
Shouldn't be too hard to add an invert mouse toggle, I'll try that when I get home

Cheers, David, I'd appreciate that.

[Hog]

Originally posted by NCarter
Sorry, I'm a flight sim geek! Forward = dive, back = climb to me.


that's somehow strange. flight simulators somehow have way different controls, since moving the mouse left and right rolls the plane, but it's not just that. i am somehow used to playing flight simulators with how the controls are there, but i'd still have alot of problems adapting to ie: an fps with inverted mouse.
i also remember way back when playing rebel assault i used to play ground flight levels with inverted mouse but space levels with correct mouse. not because i was used to it, but because it felt like it had to be that way, and i'd have problems if it was different.

[erazorhead]

the easiest way to reproduce the super-impact slow motion bug is to turn on slow motion and start landing flips wrong. you'll know it's happened when you bounce really high and the screen goes black for a second.

found another tiny animation glitch. while climbing onto a platform from hanging position, left foot does the little twirl. this and the back-handspring ones are the only ones i know of.

[OneSadCookie]

I just won the box grid level while there was still an enemy rabbit alive and chasing me!

The next level, the weird stop-animation bug erazorhead described above was happening.

Quite often when the stop-animation bug is in effect, I'm walking a few cm above the ground. When it's happening I can never use the knife.

[David]

Haven't uploaded a new build yet, but fixed some things;
-slowmotion death bug fixed
-'stop-animation' bug fixed
-added toggle for inverted mouse
-fixed blood mipmaps
-fixed messed-up air control

Still on the short-term to-do list:
-Fix stab wound locations
-Fix pathfinding (i.e. add some, there is none right now as NCarter noticed)
-Add an air throw (so you can't just jump over enemies without fear of getting hurt)
-Allow picking up bodies

[David]

Are you sure he didn't bleed to death while you weren't looking?

[OneSadCookie]

Alive and chasing me (and IIRC unhurt), and visible on-screen running with the loading message over the top.

You need to add a screen-shot key so we can take pictures of weird stuff. Just do a glReadBuffer(GL_FRONT), glReadPixels, slap a TGA/BMP header on the front and fwrite() the whole lot out. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to implement :)

[Parsap]

Very bad news :(

David's computer is in critical condition. He was switching to OS X and all of a sudden, the flashing question mark popped up. He is currently trying to locate an OS 9 CD or OS X CD but he seems to have misplaced them (read: lent them to a friend.)

Once he gets a startup disk, he'll be able to run Diskwarrior or something from the iPod and we will see what became of his game.

Luckily yesterday David transferred Lugaru to my computer so I could port it to Windows, so worst case scenario, he will be set back a day.

David will be back soon hopefully. :(

[David]

Never mind that, everything's working again :)

[Hog]

Originally posted by Parsap

... so I could port it to Windows ...

omg :sorry:

[Parsap]

Originally posted by c_dev
omg :sorry:

Resistance is futile.:D

[David]

If someone wants to port it to windows, it's fine with me :) As long as I don't have to contaminate myself.

[erazorhead]

this might be an ok time to bring this up... the one thing everyone who's played the game on my computer has said (besides "wow") is "can you fight other people?" some kind of netplay would be a ton of fun. maybe two- or three-player campaign levels. or just a basic 'king of the hill' type game. hell, if you could just run around kicking each other that would be a crapload of fun

[macboy]

Didn't you see his post on 'Network play'? ;) I would suspect that's what he's learning sockets and data transfer for :)

[David]

Alive and chasing me (and IIRC unhurt), and visible on-screen running with the loading message over the top.

You need to add a screen-shot key so we can take pictures of weird stuff. Just do a glReadBuffer(GL_FRONT), glReadPixels, slap a TGA/BMP header on the front and fwrite() the whole lot out. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to implement

Hmm yeah I want to do that. I also want to add replays and then have some kind of screenshot system to allow making quicktime movies and such :)

Did that bug ever happen more than once? BTW shift+k skips levels, is it possible that you pressed those?

Erazor, multiplayer is definitely planned :) I don't want to go the way of oni, singleplayer games seem to fade away much much faster than multiplayer ones

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by David
Did that bug ever happen more than once? BTW shift+k skips levels, is it possible that you pressed those?

Nope, I've only seen it once. It seems highly unlikely that I could have pressed k, given that I was playing the game at the time and none of my controls are near there.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David
Erazor, multiplayer is definitely planned :) I don't want to go the way of oni, singleplayer games seem to fade away much much faster than multiplayer ones
HOLY CRAP
HOOOOOOLY CRAP

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ERaZer]

When you add multiplayer, don't forget co-operation(which is too often overlooked) since IMO its one of the best multiplayer modes since its a great way to make someone else addicted to a game, its much more fun to play even tho someone is much much better then the other, etc.

[David]

Cooperative... definitely :) If possible, that is

Nope, I've only seen it once. It seems highly unlikely that I could have pressed k, given that I was playing the game at the time and none of my controls are near there.

Please let me know if it happens again, otherwise its not a huge issue since levels won't work like this except in 'training' mode.

Random update... fixed stab wound locations

[erazorhead]

so my followup question.. have you considered gameranger (http://www.gameranger.com/developer/) support? the gameranger guy (scott kevill) seems super cool and would probably be into giving you a hand integrating gameranger into lugaru and vice-versa. GR support would probably also be a lot of free advertising (i know i've discovered a few new games via their connection with gameranger)

[akisha]

GameRanger Sucks (http://www.foxchange.com/~matt/rants/gamerangersucks.html)

How about GameSmith? (http://www.gamesmith.biz/)

[macboy]

That website's explanation of why it sucks doesn't seem very plausible at all.

GameSmith is not very popular and only has a few games right now.

[Parsap]

Why not support both? :cool:

I agree, though, that GameRanger is moderated too strictly. The moderators take a pointless stream of chat way too seriously.

[erazorhead]

yeah i'm pretty unswayed by that 'gameranger sucks' link

- this one person's experience with gameranger has no bearing on its possible use as a way of gathering lugaru games, or as a promotional medium for lugaru.
- this one person's opinion, while as relevant as anyone's, holds little water against the thousands and thousands of people on gameranger who obviously don't think it sucks enough to not use it.
- the account this person gives is so phenomenally vague and one-sided that it gives me no reason to think he was even right in the first place. not to say i assume this person is lying, but obviously we are only hearing one side. and even if he is being totally objective; yeah, that sucks, sorry. should gameranger not be moderated? in my experience, scott kevill has, through his moderation, kept gameranger an interesting, open, on-topic and thoughtful forum for chatting - at least compared to any alternative i can think of (can't think of anywhere else you can go to chat that's not overwhelmed by bots, spammers, annoying A/S/L'ers, blah blah blah). so anyways, if there is not more to this story than is being told, then.... scott made a mistake and came down too hard on one guy. then apologized. that won't stop me from using or recommending it.

sorry if it seems like i'm being a jerk, i'm not trying to :p i say, add gamesmith support, too, if it's not too difficult.:)

[igame3d]

Ha! Thats a funny almost timely link.
I just had a chat with someone and I could have saved and posted it as a Matt Beetle sucks page! hahah!

I'll take both with a grain of salt and a dash of pepper.

[OneSadCookie]

I've figured out that the "unexpectedly dead rabbits" bug is the same bug as the "hit/countered by wrong rabbit during rabbit kick" bug. It doesn't seem to matter how far away the "wrong" rabbit is...

I can reproduce this about 1/5th of the time in the last level (with 9 boxes) by rabbit-kicking the closest enemy. If you do it fast enough, all three other enemies will still be in view, and you'll be able to see one of them go flying...

You can also tell if it's happened when you get the symptoms of a landed kick (shaking camera, you stop dead) but your target seems unaffected. Just run around the level at that point and you should see someone dead or getting up.

I can reproduce this on levels 2, 3 and 5, but never on 4, so my theory is that it has to do with boxes.

[Gastropod]

Originally posted by erazorhead
yeah i'm pretty unswayed by that 'gameranger sucks' link


I've had different problems with GameRanger. Particularly, he only seems interested in adding big name games. I can't remember the last time a shareware game has been given a GR plugin.
In the uDevGame 2002 contest I added GR support. All I needed from Scott Kevil was a plugin for our entry Game Glutton. We had games on Gr before (a-hole cards and cribbage).... but I couldn't get any response fom him about a plugin. I sent about 6 emails over 6 months(still tried well after the contest). I eventually found him on GR chat and asked what the story was... he just said he was too busy to make me a plugin. This was quite frustrating for me because I had put a lot of work into the networking aspect to ensure games stayed in sync and so on. So in the end our game only had direct TCP/IP play which I'm sure no one has used.
I would be less irritated with Scott if he had at least replied to me saying, "No, I won't let freeware games be on GR anymore" or something to that effect.

We also tried with GameSmith. The freeverse folks were very friendly and actually contacted us(not realizing we contected them already). But unfortunatly, GS only works with CodeWarrior and we used ProjectBuilder :( The other potential problem is that they already had a set of board games in the works at the time and GameGlutton on GameSmith might hurt sales a bit(though they never said this).

On even more of a tangent.. I was still convinced that we needed a game gathering server. So we've made one and are in beta testing with it now. It is much more simplistic that GR and doesn't have many features, but the basics are there. I'm hoping it will be an alternative for those who can't get their game on GR or GS. Making a new game server has been a lot of work and would be completly unnessesary is Scott was willing to give us a plugin.

So in short... GameRanger sucks :) GameSmith is nice.

[macboy]

Originally posted by Gastropod
I can't remember the last time a shareware game has been given a GR plugin. You must contact him and people probably aren't always willing to do that.

Originally posted by Gastropod
he just said he was too busy to make me a plugin. So... he has a life, anything wrong with that?

[Parsap]

You must contact him and people probably aren't always willing to do that.
Did you read Gastropod's post? It sounds more like he's "too busy" for the little guys.

So... he has a life, anything wrong with that?
No... but that means he can't add support for small name games to GameRanger which sucks. Why would having a life make it any better?

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by macboy
So... he has a life, anything wrong with that?

If in six months he can't find time to add support for one game, what is he doing running an online games service? Like Parsap said, it's probably less a matter of time constraints than of simply not caring about shareware and freeware games.

[Parsap]

A couple more suggestions:

1) I would like to see a desert environment.

2) I think you should get rid of the whole unconcious/dead system. Rabbits shouldn't wake up after 5 minutes. That's very confusing.

[Parsap]

Also, I think that the camera shouldn't have a maximum speed. It's cool how when you're moving really fast the camera has to catch up with you, but I think in those cases the camera should move maybe .9 times the rabbit's speed, so that the rabbit is still getting ahead of the camera but the camera is accelerating at the same time.

[David]

I actually already did the desert thing, here (http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Deserttheme.jpg) 's a screenshot.

I think the unconscious/dead system is realistic and gives the player much more power, and won't affect the game much if people just ignore it. However for people who care, killing the enemies will (in the final version) make there be fewer enemies later on, but more vicious ones.

[erazorhead]

oooo.... i smell a big update coming... :D

[Parsap]

Logo: http://aimm.emuscene.com/lug.jpg

[David]

New version at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit Mostly cosmetic changes and bug fixes, please let me know if anything's messed up, if everything's fine maybe I can work on the next step of the actual game :)

Edit: Fixed the link, sorry about that :p
Edit: update at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit

[igame3d]

404
oops...your working too hard

[OneSadCookie]

Working URL: http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit

Edit by David: update at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit

[macboy]

Crashes at 61% loading under OS X (at least on my computer it does)...going to reboot in 9...

[David]

I'm stupid... for some reason the bush textures were at 204*269 or some ridiculous size like that; fixed at 256*256.

The fix is at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix).sit

[David]

Another minor update at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix2).sit

Among other things, makes enemies less likely to kill themselves and each other and fixes sweep impact animations.

Unless anyone says differently, Lugaru is now bug-free; on to new stuff :)

Edit: Fixed link

[OneSadCookie]

I just won again with a live enemy. This time it was clear that he had been unconcious, and had come to since the last enemy had been killed. He'd just spotted me when the loading screen came up.

[erazorhead]

i get an unexpectedly quit error when loading Lugaru - fix2

did not get this error in the last complete release, only once i updated it

this is os 10.2.6

[Josh]

Originally posted by David
Another minor update at http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix2).sitOr is it wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru(fix2).sit? Or just wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit? :rolleyes:

[David]

Hmm... is this error under low detail mode?

Do you have the 256*256 bush textures? Fix2 does not include Fix1.

[Jake]

The download stalls halfway through the download, does someone have a mirror? I can set one up if you want one (is anyone else getting this problem?)

[Joseph Duchesne]

Originally posted by Jake
The download stalls halfway through the download, does someone have a mirror? I can set one up if you want one (is anyone else getting this problem?)
I am getting this to.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David
Hmm... is this error under low detail mode?
Do you have the 256*256 bush textures? Fix2 does not include Fix1.

this happens under any detail mode

i did put the fix1 textures in the textures folder

i will try redownloading the whole thing (which i'm doing anyway to set up a mirror)

EDIT: redownloaded, now it works. must have screwed something up.
i'm combining the fixes into one archive, the mirror will be up in about half an hour.

[erazorhead]

david i think my roomates hate you, because now all they can hear is me yelling

"GODD**N I HURT THAT GUY SO BADLY"

"MY RABBIT BEAT THE S**T OUT OF ALL THOSE OTHER RABBITS DID YOU SEE THAT I DIDNT EVEN HAVE A KNIFE"

"YEAH YOU WONT TRY ANYTHING AFTER I F***ING FLIP YOU, YOU SONOFAB***H"

this game only gets better.

anyways,

mirror for newest version (combines last release, fix1 and fix2 into one archive) (http://www.rroland.net/misc/Lugaru.sit)

[diordna]

When I start, the rabbit is at an incredibly high elevation and just faaaaaaaaaallllssssss...way down to the ground. When I hit the ground and die, I can see the platform above me. Why don't I start on the platform in the first place?

[macboy]

Originally posted by diordna
When I start, the rabbit is at an incredibly high elevation and just faaaaaaaaaallllssssss...way down to the ground. When I hit the ground and die, I can see the platform above me. Why don't I start on the platform in the first place? You're probably missing maps or something.

[macboy]

Oh, and David, did you mean to make it so the trunks of the trees still show up when you turn off foliage? (even though it would be appropriate, foliage meaning leaves, it still seems a bit odd ;) )

[Joseph Duchesne]

I have the same fatal falling as diordna :( . Oh well.

David: can you post a full download linked from my site? just upload it to the main directory.
fpt.staronesw.com
login: *deleted by david*
pwd: *deleted by david*

I know I shouldn't be posting this but I'm swiching servers in a few weeks so I don't really care.

[David]

The trunks are intentional, just to keep the basic idea of the level similar and help you find your way around, though yeah they do look kinda weird :p

Does that falling thing just happen on level 3? Does it happen every time?

Thanks I'll try that ftp :)

[diordna]

It happens on 1 and 2...I don't know how to skip them.

And how do you turn on the map editor? I didn't get a read me...

[David]

You didn't get a readme?

There may be something really wrong with your download... :/ Could you please try redownloading?

[erazorhead]

EDIT: whoops, my advice is rendered invalid as soon as i post it. just get the NEWEST VERSION

awesome

david's server
http://wolfire.emuscene.com/Lugaru.sit

erazorhead's mirror
http://www.rroland.net/misc/Lugaru.sit

david will probably post telling us about any changes/new stuff, but just download it anyway, you know you want to

[David]

New stuff:
-Crashing fixed (as far as I know)
-Misc. weather effects: wind, snow, heat haze, etc.
-Added low kick move for enemies on the ground, i.e. right after you sweep them
-Some new textures for things
-Air recovery (when falling or landing from a slam press shift to right yourself or roll)
-Better visuals for sliding or landing hard straight down

[David]

In case anyone is interested in my plan for the future of this game:

I intend to have three modes; story, challenge and multiplayer

Story mode is somewhat self-explanatory, but basically when you leave the relevant area of the map you go to a large-scale 2d map ala Fallout, and will go to various important points of your choosing. I.e. wolf's den, rabbit villages, etc. You will be able to talk to characters and go on several missions in order to learn new fighting styles or how to use new weapons more effectively, and will eventually choose one of 2 or 3 'final' missions that end the game if completed, with various outcomes, i.e. wolves are vanquished, you take command of the wolves and rule everything, or you restore equilibrium.

Every time you beat the 'story' mode (well not EVERY time, but a few times, maybe the first,second,fourth,and seventh time or something) it unlocks a new point on the map where you can get a new mission and/or a new weapon/fighting style or a new challenge level or two.


Challenge mode would consist of several sets of a few levels each: The training set starts out unlocked and consists of a few levels explaining how to move around, counter attacks, etc. Then there would be a few movement challenge levels where you try to get from A to B as quickly as possible with as little damage as possible, with bronze, silver and gold scores that you can beat that you can use to unlock the other levels in the series.
Other 'challenge' series could be "hand-to-hand", "projectiles", "weapons", "escape", "stealth" etc.


Multiplayer mode would be much like 'challenge', where there would be 'separate', 'combat' and 'cooperative'. Separate would consist of any of the challenge levels that both players have unlocked, where they could take turns competing, or perhaps compete at the same time against a ghost image of the other player. Combat would be the same except they could directly interact, and cooperative would be the same except they are both on the same team.


The characters will just be wolves and rabbits, and each specific character will be pretty similar except for their colors and markings. Male and female creatures will most likely just have slightly different proportions and different voices. Voices will either be acted out, or just be chittering/growls/barks/etc. and subtitles... I guess the subtitles would be easiest.

Planned weapons:
Knives (straight or reverse style, with slightly