Lugaru Testing

[David]

Another update, just the app and two animations at http://wolfire.com/Update.sit

New stuff:
-Toned down blood-loss-darkening
-Added dodge move (back+click when being attacked by a weapon)

[Jake]

Just curious, is this game going to be freeware, shareware, commercial or what? It definitly looks commercial quality !

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
Just curious, is this game going to be freeware, shareware, commercial or what? It definitly looks commercial quality ! A piggy-back off Jake: if it's going to cost money, do "official" beta testers get it free? ;)

[Jake]

Originally posted by macboy
do "official" beta testers get it free? ;)

I will pay for it regardless if I can get it for free, David Deserves it!

[Najdorf]

David, could you post a list of your games and the adresses if they still are on the net? I' d like to see them...

[OneSadCookie]

I'd just countered a move off a knife-wielding guy, the one where you grab his ears and punch him on the chin...

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0xc022b3d4

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x0021c980 in Objects::SphereCheckPossible(XYZ *, float)
#1 0x001f9ca4 in 0x1f9ca4
#2 0x00211b40 in 0x211b40
#3 0x001cb4ac in 0x1cb4ac
#4 0x001a2570 in DoUpdate(void)
#5 0x001a27b0 in IdleTimer
#6 0x90163230 in __CFRunLoopDoTimer
#7 0x90148d28 in __CFRunLoopRun
#8 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#9 0x969a3b70 in RunCurrentEventLoopInMode
#10 0x969a41f4 in GetNextEventMatchingMask
#11 0x969a8054 in WNEInternal
#12 0x969adf0c in WaitNextEvent
#13 0x001a2604 in WaitNextEventWrapper(unsigned short, EventRecord *, unsigned long, OpaqueRgnHandle *)
#14 0x001a286c in DoEvent(void)
#15 0x001a2b20 in main

Thread 1:
#0 0x90073c48 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005f90 in mach_msg
#2 0x901489f0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x94d9c1c0 in HALRunLoop::OwnThread(void*)
#5 0x94d911b0 in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#6 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

Thread 2:
#0 0x90042688 in semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap
#1 0x9003e8b4 in _pthread_cond_wait
#2 0x94d83ac4 in CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long)
#3 0x94d832b0 in CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long)
#4 0x94d822e0 in XThreadedDevice::IOThread()
#5 0x94d95a24 in XThreadedDevice::IOThreadEntry(void*)
#6 0x94d911b0 in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#7 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

Thread 3:
#0 0x90041ba8 in mach_wait_until
#1 0x90263c3c in MPDelayUntil
#2 0x0025a1d8 in 0x25a1d8
#3 0x0025f0d4 in 0x25f0d4
#4 0x902b739c in _MP_CFMTaskProc
#5 0x9025d924 in PrivateMPEntryPoint
#6 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x0021c980 srr1: 0x0000f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x001f9ca4 ctr: 0x0024b130 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0xc022b3d4 r1: 0xbfffd880 r2: 0x002eb000 r3: 0xc02273bc
r4: 0x00000000 r5: 0x00d2ef10 r6: 0x80000004 r7: 0x00000020
r8: 0x00000006 r9: 0x00000001 r10: 0x048599f0 r11: 0xa02219e4
r12: 0x002e5374 r13: 0x00000184 r14: 0x00000014 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x02dbe32c r17: 0x02db9d40 r18: 0x0155aa7c r19: 0x002621d0
r20: 0x02dbe344 r21: 0x02dbe320 r22: 0x02db9b84 r23: 0x02dbe314
r24: 0x016e14ac r25: 0x02db9bb0 r26: 0x0062ef30 r27: 0x02dbe350
r28: 0x00343bbc r29: 0x02dbe314 r30: 0x0062ef30 r31: 0x016e14ac

[David]

Thanks Jake :) But yeah I'll probably give beta testers a free version.

Anyways games I've made include:
Black Shades (http://david.emuscene.com/BlackShades.sit)
GLFighters (http://64.246.17.165/downloads/udgfinalist/GLFighters.sit)
FirePong 2 (http://www.wolfire.com/FirePong2.sit)
Sword (http://www.wolfire.com/Sword.sit)

They're all OS 9 only though :/

OSC is that repeatable? It sounds like it could be quitting when he gets his knife knocked out of his hand, I'll check it out.

Btw took some nifty screenshots:
http://wolfire.com/Slice.jpg
http://wolfire.com/Doubleblade.jpg
http://wolfire.com/Jumpzoom.jpg
http://wolfire.com/Backpunch.jpg
http://wolfire.com/Sweep.jpg
http://wolfire.com/Upunch.jpg
http://wolfire.com/Swordstab.jpg

[Jofuf]

I'll test.. And so will everyone else on the furum :p . Your game is amazing. All Hail DAVID!

(go's off to download sword)

[David]

Thanks Jofuf :p

Anyways, new version up at:
http://wolfire.com/Lugaru.sit
http://wolfire.com/Lugaru(ultralite).sit

New stuff:
-Pseudo-lightmapping
-Added sword sneak attack
-Now able to stab dead/unconscious enemies with the sword

[Hog]

now since there is a sword will there also be some kind of dismembering of body parts in a future version?

[OneSadCookie]

There's some really weird stuff going on with the knife. My strategy for level 5 (desert blocks) is to jump up on the block in front of me, throw my knife at the first rabbit that comes along to kill it, go down and steal the sword before the other rabbits come along. Picking up the sword doesn't work too well though. The first pick up almost always gets the knife, though usually it doesn't actually get picked up, it stays stuck in the rabbit's back. The second pick up does usually (but not always) get the sword. If I do get the knife the first time, rather than getting air, taking it somewhere nearby and dropping it, then going back to pick up the sword causes the knife to teleport back into the rabbit's back...

I also had a freeze just when I got hammered. Can't remember if I was holding a weapon, sorry. Haven't seen the other crash again.

Level 5 seems to cause extreme frame-rate choppiness (as in several seconds, then about 3 frames, then several seconds). This may be caused by enemy rabbits with drawn swords...

[macboy]

So do you plan to have a bow and arrows or some kind of projectile?

I always find being on top or walking on a bridge results in bad choppiness. Rocks too. But I guess that's because those are higher polygon than other objects.

[erazorhead]

- can't draw sword while running, crouching, jumping, etc

- if knife gleams while moving, the gleam is stationary instead of moving with the knife

- i second onesadcookie's problem, trying to remove knife from back of that particular enemy in that particular situation.

- the physics in slow-motion are more exaggerated than ever. a sweep sends me twenty feet into the air.

- this (http://www.rroland.net/misc/blocky.jpg) still happens sometimes (sprites, like falling snow and impact clouds, turn into plain rectangles)

- i think the sword finishing move should be crouch and click. for both consistency (with the knife) and because i always do it when i'm trying to attack someone else.

- there's something that bothers me about landing from the wall-kick. you have all this spin momentum, but somehow it reverses at the last second and you turn the wrong way as you land. does that make sense? you should keep turning the same way as you land.

- still a little 'teleportation' between animations

have you considered implementing a melee weapon in each hand? seems like a whole lot of work, but it would be super sweet.

[Shivers]

Originally posted by erazorhead

- the physics in slow-motion are more exaggerated than ever. a sweep sends me twenty feet into the air.


I actually think this is awesome. It really gives the game some style, it reminds me of a good martial arts movie. Anyway, games really need style or they end up very bland, like Cloneshooter. Lack of style is also what bugged me about red faction.

I think the new animations are great and I think you should stick with the way rabbits die when they are hit with a knife, the ragdoll physics are really cool and work well in the situation. I think that new moves in the game might be better than new weapons, because I think that lugaru really excels as a barefist (i didn't have a better word...what i mean is little or no weapons) fighting game, and the knife adds a good twist, but don't overdo the weapons because I think lugaru is strongest as a fistfighting game.

[morgant]

I too am occasionally seeing my card losing textures or running out of texture memory (not sure which it is)... I'm using a Rage 128 Pro (16MB VRAM, of course) at 640x480, 32-bit.

The game is definitely REALLY unbalanced with out a good counter for the sword :p

[Wrisc]

Just tried out the new version; I haven't had as many problems as other people, but mb it's just a fluke. The sword I think is a little unbalanced, but at the same time, because you can't strike low with the sword (and neither can the AI), it has an odd sense of balance to it as well.

One thing that bugs me with this version is when you get flung into the air from an attack (because of the ragdoll motion), if there's more than one rabbit, they can often get another 2 hits on you before you've hit the ground; it can be frustrating :/

I've got a couple of minor suggestions as well =)

~The console is a nice addition; It would also be nice to be able to bring up a map list so that you can select a map to play.

~I'm guessing by having the knife no longer standard, the other levels take a little bit of time readjusting to using fists only ;)

~I second the idea for a melee weapon of some kind; brass knuckles perhaps?

~How would you feel about adding a staff to the game ? increase jump height, etc. and allows for new attacks both with the staff, and using the staff for balance =)

~Wrisc

[David]

I'm not planning to add dismembering :?: I think there's enough blood already :p

Ahhhh so many bugs :wacko:
I'll try to fix them all asap.

Dual knives are planned, but that will probably be it for that. A staff/spear is planned. New fighting moves/styles are planned. Bow and arrow are possible.
You will probably only be able to draw the sword while standing still because it is so much more unwieldy (and powerful) than the knife, the knife needs some kind of advantage :cool:

BTW if you get knocked in the air it might help to press shift and flip out of ragdoll mode, but yeah I want to emphasize the whole gang-beatdown feel that I thought Oni missed. If you fight two guys at the same time it should be much harder than fighting them separately, and fighting three or four should be near impossible.

[morgant]

Speaking of the console, it's extremely slow on my system. Once working well it'll be of great help to you and the beta testers.

never mind... now i can't reproduce it :???:

[macboy]

David, a few problems:

1) After exiting Lugaru, I noticed that the global mouse speed has been modified. This badly needs to be fixed.
2) Sometimes after killing somebody by throwing the knife, then kicking the body, if they have a weapon, it somehow just disappears, but the image reappears sometimes even though I can't pick it up (Although the only way I've been able to produce this constantly is on the desert level with the rabbit with a sword)

some more... I'll get back to ya...

[David]

After exiting Lugaru, I noticed that the global mouse speed has been modified. This badly needs to be fixed.

Are you sure? I have no idea how to change the mouse speed... :wacko:

Sometimes after killing somebody by throwing the knife, then kicking the body, if they have a weapon, it somehow just disappears, but the image reappears sometimes even though I can't pick it up (Although the only way I've been able to produce this constantly is on the desert level with the rabbit with a sword)

That's very weird, though I think I can see why that might happen; I'll try and fix it. Could you please explain how exactly to reproduce it?

[David]

Update at http://wolfire.com/Lugaru.sit

New stuff:
-Fixed all serious bugs, as far as I can tell (unless I added new ones)
-Added a short delay after missing with a weapon attack before you can use it again
-Tweaked lighting effects a bit
-Sped up all the render-to-texture effects (motion blur, doublevision, etc.)

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
Are you sure? I have no idea how to change the mouse speed... :wacko: It always sets it to the 4th from the left, or something like that.

Originally posted by David
That's very weird, though I think I can see why that might happen; I'll try and fix it. Could you please explain how exactly to reproduce it? On the desert level, just throw the knife at him and kill him somehow, then kick his body and it usually happens.

[Najdorf]

Hey, I played FIREPONG! cool game! just the type I like... just a bit hard at the start.
Believe me, I' ll probably play more with firepong than with lugaru... I guess I' m a hopeless nostalgic :rolleyes:

[morgant]

Hmmm, I play Lugaru regularly and have yet to see it change my mouse speed :???: I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.6, are you up to date?

[macboy]

Originally posted by morgant
Hmmm, I play Lugaru regularly and have yet to see it change my mouse speed :???: I'm running Mac OS X 10.2.6, are you up to date? Sadly, no. But it still should be able to run correctly on the systems it's able to run AT ALL on.

I'm running 10.1.5. I like keeping my mouse at the second highest speed, but after playing Lugaru it always goes back to, as I said, something like the 4th from slowest speed.

[David]

On the desert level, just throw the knife at him and kill him somehow, then kick his body and it usually happens.

Did you try the newest version? I can't reproduce this :/

I have a feeling OS 10.1.6 just has issues with switching resolutions or something, because the only calls I make that are mouse-related are to check the coords.

Najdorf: I'm glad you like Firepong :)

[David]

Update... again...
http://wolfire.com/Lugaru.sit

New stuff:
-Misc. bug fixes, mostly involving weapons
-Better pathfinding (i.e. pathfinding exists now to some extent) Most noticeably fixes some of the confused jumping into walls on the 'fort' level

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
Did you try the newest version? I can't reproduce this :/I think you fixed it with the newest version (intentionally or not) because I can't either now.

Originally posted by David
I have a feeling OS 10.1.(5) just has issues with switching resolutions or something, because the only calls I make that are mouse-related are to check the coords.I'm not really sure about the switching resolutions idea... MetaL works fine doing that and the mouse stays at the same speed. Maybe it has something to do with you "grabbing" the mouse. (e.g. returning it to it's original location after moving the camera)

[David]

Hmm that could be it, I'll look into it :/

BTW... new update at http://wolfire.com/Lugaru.sit

New stuff:
-AI understands how to use weapons better
-Everyone can disarm-counter weapon attacks if they are close enough (weapon range > counter range)
-Minor bug fixes

[NCarter]

A few thoughts:

If I load a map from the console and then get killed, it reloads whichever level I was on before instead of the one I loaded. It might also be nice to have a way to get a listing of available levels (like the Unix 'ls' command).

With blurring turned off, it's very difficult to tell how badly injured you are. I have to keep motion blur off because it's not very smooth on my system (G4 450DP, Radeon 8500). Maybe you could try doing a blackout effect like WarBirds III, where you get tunnel vision rather than just fading to black. They do it (I think) by overlaying the screen with a textured quad showing a transparent dot on a black background, and the visible part of the image shrinks as G-force stresses increase.

I sometimes have some difficulty doing a shin kick. For example, sometimes I can punch an opponent and immediately kick them away and sometimes I can't. Is there something specific I have to do to get the shin kick to work? Also, the lift-and-punch finishing move sometimes doesn't work for about a second after I crouch over a body. I guess you're trying to limit the player's ability to use it repeatedly, but in some other circumstances I can do the finishing move on two bodies in quick succession with no delay.

These comments might not relate to the version you just released because you keep releasing new versions faster than I can test them! ;)

[David]

I could try the tunnel vision thing for non-blurry damage, that sounds like it could be interesting :cool:

Yeah the console controls aren't very useful right now except for editing maps; they set the map to a certain level but don't move your position in the level loop.

You can only do the finishing punch move after the game is sure they've come to a rest, but I could make that a bit sooner :) *fixed* To do the dropkick (shin kick) you have to be running in their direction and click so it won't work if you're standing still. I'll see if there's something wrong with it though.

BTW I'm going to be gone for a few days so no new updates for a while :shock:

[David]

BTW if any of you want to help with models, textures, etc. that would be great, I probably won't pay for it but you will definitely get credit.

[Shivers]

Here is what i plan on doing (so nobody else should do them)

A Bunny house
A Training Dummy
Some cool scenery for gameplay
A Jump Sword animation

[Joseph Duchesne]

Oh I'll do Redwall Abbey :P [/jk]

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by Shivers
A Bunny house

you're going to model the bunny house? or do textures for one? or what

[NCarter]

Originally posted by David
You can only do the finishing punch move after the game is sure they've come to a rest, but I could make that a bit sooner :) *fixed* To do the dropkick (shin kick) you have to be running in their direction and click so it won't work if you're standing still. I'll see if there's something wrong with it though.

I found I often couldn't do a finishing move straight away even if the body had been lying around for some time.

The 'shin kick' I'm referring to is the one you use to kick low or prone opponents. I believe that you have to press forward, left or right and click to do it, but sometimes it seems to require that I stop moving first. Is that right?

Oh yeah, I've just remembered another couple of things that I think are really important:

I don't think there should be a 'turning circle' effect when you start moving in another direction. Bipeds can start walking in any direction and turn to face in any other direction independently (you can even walk in a straight line while turning 360 degrees - try it!); a quadruped, on the other hand, would have a minimum turning circle. The reason it bugs me is that it makes it difficult to accurately position myself to pick things up, stab prone opponents with the sword or to a low kick. You could still have the figure turn slowly to face the direction of travel, but I think it should start moving in the specified direction immediately.

The other thing is the way you automatically mount low walls. On level three, if you go too close to the wall at the side, you automatically climb up onto it. This can be annoying if you're trying to hit someone at the same level! I think it would be better if you had to press something (shift?) while walking into the wall to climb it. That wouldn't apply to very low steps, of course.

Demanding, aren't I? :)


BTW I'm going to be gone for a few days so no new updates for a while :shock:

Curses! ;)

[Shivers]

i am modelling one, don't worry, i talked all of this over with David before i posted anything.

[Iceman]

This is such a cool game! The only complaint I have is that when I press the shift key I usually hit shift-z by accident can you change the reload key to something like shift-v or something please? Other than that this game rocks!

Thanks,
Iceman

[OneSadCookie]

I'm using the latest version, and the frame-rate jerkiness isn't fixed, and the losing-the-textures-on-the-particles isn't fixed. Just thought you should know...

Also, the physics seems to be tied to the frame-rate... when you get a big jerk in the frame-rate, you can pull some amazing stunts (but more often, just die horribly to a sword blow :( ).

[David]

Ok, just got back an hour or two ago.

Anyways, to kick crouching people it doesn't matter if you're running or not, but to kick prone people you have to be running. Yes the physics are related somehow to the gamespeed and the framerate, but I'm not sure how to fix it yet :/

I'm glad you like it Iceman :)

Made some changes but didn't upload yet:
-Much less of a 'turning circle' when crouched (you don't really have one when standing)
-No climbing unless you press space
-shift-z changed to command-z
-Added an ugly fix for the texture bug where it now reloads all the sprite textures when you load a level (I hope this works, or I'll be totally confused)
-Less delay before you can repeat the finishing punch

[OneSadCookie]

There's a thread somewhere else with a simple way to untie physics rate from frame rate, posted by yours truly. Search and ye shall find :)

[Joseph Duchesne]

My brother found a bug in the game...It doesn't matter or anything but it's like a cheat. Anyway I won't tell ya because I (and my brother) very fond of this bug:p .

[skyhawk]

Originally posted by Joseph Duchesne
My brother found a bug in the game...It doesn't matter or anything but it's like a cheat. Anyway I won't tell ya because I (and my brother) very fond of this bug:p .

poor form

[David]

Sounds good OSC, I think I'll try just stepping through everything at a fixed timestep. The only problem with that is that it sort of caps the fps; i.e. if I set it to 60 simulations per second then it can't go above, and if I set it to 120 simulations per second, it would go slow on lower-end machines.

BTW I'm not sure why it would be choppy in the first place, do you have lots of background tasks or something? I tested on a G3 333 w/ Rage 128 and it got about 20 fps. I guess it could be because of OS X or something :/

[OneSadCookie]

It goes plenty fast on average (around 40FPS at 1024x768x32, full details, trilinear, all sounds & music).

The problem is that in physics-intense (and AI-intense?) situations, the frame rate drops to 1 or 2 a second, until either I kill everyone attacking me, or I die, or I manage to get away from them for a few seconds.

You can vary the physics time-step based on the frame-rate — for example, if you're going below 20FPS, double the physics time-step so you only do half as many iterations.

The other thing you can do (which I believe Halo did/does) is do a fixed amount of physics work each frame (eg. move a certain number of masses). If that means that you get 5 physics iterations per frame or 1/2 a physics iteration per frame, at least physics isn't tied to frame-rate. It also means you can do funky things like prioritize fast-moving or user-focus objects...

[NCarter]

The main slowdown I'm seeing seems to be related directly to the amount of ragdoll action going on. The slowdown seems to increase exponentially with the number of colliding objects.

It looks like fallen bodies continue moving slightly for a (comparatively) long time after they've hit the ground. Maybe you could get some processing time back by having a threshold to ignore bodies which have nearly stopped moving. Might need some fine tuning to get the cutoff point right, though!

One other new bug you should know about: sometimes I see knives or swords lying around which aren't really there. You can see them from a distance or from certain angles, but they can't be seen when you get up close. This happens both on the ground and on top of blocks.

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by NCarter
One other new bug you should know about: sometimes I see knives or swords lying around which aren't really there. You can see them from a distance or from certain angles, but they can't be seen when you get up close. This happens both on the ground and on top of blocks.

I've seen this once, too. I thought I was crazy :D

[David]

Hmm I'll try the timestep thing and see if that helps. BTW are you sure you don't have blood set to 2? That can cause a huge performance hit on OS X due to some poor support for texture updating. It does ignore bodies if they're static for a second or so, it used to be less time but then it would occasionally return false values that would end up with bodies frozen in unbalanced positions.

That weapon bug seems a bit strange :p I'll see if I can figure it out.

The ragdolls do slow it down significantly, but not to the extent you're describing; on my G4 733 having two or three ragdolls can bring the fps down to 25 from 40-50, but never down to 1 or 2 even on OS X. Same with a G3 333, it goes down to 10-15 from 20-30. I think the 1 or 2 fps must be because of some other problem; I assume there are no other programs open?

[OneSadCookie]

Blood is set to 2.

What do you mean Mac OS X has much worse support for texture updates than Mac OS 9? If you use APPLE_client_storage and either the AGP hint or APPLE_texture_range, you can get faster texture uploads than even on the PC!

I can play all but the very largest movies through OpenGL on a quad at full frame-rate. Can you do that on Mac OS 9?

[David]

Ah, please try turning blood to 1 or 0 and let me know how it works :)

When I call glTexSubImage2D on OS 9 there is a delay of a couple milliseconds and on OS X there is a delay of something like a quarter of a second. It might have to do with having GL_GENERATE_MIPMAP_SGIS on or something, or it might be something weird in my implementation.

[OneSadCookie]

It's probably mipmap generation that's the problem... AFAIK, TexSubImage2D has only improved.

Definitely try APPLE_client_storage and the AGP hint, though — those gave me huge benefits doing the movie stuff.

[David]

I'll try that :) But meanwhile, does setting blood to 1 or 0 help with the fps?

[OneSadCookie]

I'll let you know when I get home from work ;)

[NCarter]

Originally posted by David
That weapon bug seems a bit strange :p I'll see if I can figure it out.

I think I've got it: if there are any weapons in the air when the level ends due to the player being killed, when it restarts they're still visible at their last positions. When the guy carrying the actual weapon appears, the ghost weapon disappears permanently.

[David]

Hmm... Ah found it :) *fixed* It was drawing weapons even if their owners were occluded, meaning their positions wouldnt be visibly updated.

[OneSadCookie]

Neither Blood 1 nor Blood 0 helps the jerky framerate problem in the slightest.

Just play level 5 a few times on Mac OS X to see what I mean... although, it could possibly be a race condition thing with the sound thread that only manifests itself on MP machines? What sound API are you using?

Also, a play tip/bug report — always use the weapons by holding the mouse button down, rather than by clicking. Makes things very very easy :)

[NCarter]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie
Neither Blood 1 nor Blood 0 helps the jerky framerate problem in the slightest.

Just play level 5 a few times on Mac OS X to see what I mean... although, it could possibly be a race condition thing with the sound thread that only manifests itself on MP machines? What sound API are you using?

Odd, I was going to say "David's right, it's the blood level, not the physics that causes the slowdown", because switching to Blood 1 reduces slowdown dramatically for me. To be fair, he does say that in the readme, but I had ignored his warning! I'm also using an multiprocessor Mac - maybe there's something else about your computer that it doesn't like.

It's not the same without Blood 2, though.... What about adding more splatter at once instead of continuously drawing trails?

[David]

Yeah holding the mouse down does make it easier :p I'm hoping adding more moves/counters will fix that though. I'm using FMOD and don't think it's a problem with dual processors, I just went to the Apple Store to test that out on all the display machines and it works fine :/

I think I'll make it so setting blood to 2 on OS X will keep the blood trails, but won't update them every frame.

[David]

Updated the Lugaru page (http://wolfire.com/lugaru.html) with some more interesting screenshots.

[Holmes]

Hey David.

I've been playing this game each release since nearly the begining, and I just gotta say I love it. But anyway, now I'm going to be a jerk and ask a rather pertinent question:

Can you tell me how you did the transparent fog on the landscape? I've got my own terrain engine, I have to limit the sightrange with fog for speed reasons, but then it makes the skybox look rather foul.

http://homepage.mac.com/solidmag/badterrain.jpg

The only solution I've thought of as of right now is computing transperancy per frame based on distance from the camera, and it seems really expensive to me. Help me out?

[David]

That's actually essentially what I do. The terrain is divided into patches consisting of 16 quads each, and if a patch is farther than the opaque distance and closer than the maximum distance, it modifies the opacity of each point by its squared distance (to save a whole lot of square roots).

Pseudo-code:

viewdistsquared=viewdistance*viewdistance;
fadestart=.7;

for(i=0;i<num_vertices;i++){
distance=square(x1-x2)+square(y1-y2)+square(z1-z2);
Opacity[i]=(viewdistsquared-(distance-(viewdistsquared*fadestart))*(1/(1-fadestart)))/viewdistsquared
}

This may be horrendously poorly optimized but it seems to work :)

[erazorhead]

ok two things about enemies

#1 enemies seem to look toward you, even before they see you, for no apparent reason

#2 enemies seem to have a 180∞+ field of view. this is harsh (especially when combined with the first thing i mentioned). i would give them a 90∞ field of view where they will see you whether you are moving or not, and an additional maybe 5 or 10∞ on either side where they will see you if you move but not if you stay still.

[Mazilurik]

Another bug: Sometimes on the fourth level the player's character will die when he's not being attacked, usually while fighting the last rabbit (the screen goes dark and the player's character falls forward dead, even though the opponent is too far away to attack).

[Parsap]

Originally posted by Mazilurik
Another bug: Sometimes on the fourth level the player's character will die when he's not being attacked, usually while fighting the last rabbit (the screen goes dark and the player's character falls forward dead, even though the opponent is too far away to attack).
Sure you didn't bleed to death?

[Holmes]

Originally posted by David
That's actually essentially what I do. The terrain is divided into patches consisting of 16 quads each, and if a patch is farther than the opaque distance and closer than the maximum distance, it modifies the opacity of each point by its squared distance (to save a whole lot of square roots).

Pseudo-code:

viewdistsquared=viewdistance*viewdistance;
fadestart=.7;

for(i=0;i<num_vertices;i++){
distance=square(x1-x2)+square(y1-y2)+square(z1-z2);
Opacity[i]=(viewdistsquared-(distance-(viewdistsquared*fadestart))*(1/(1-fadestart)))/viewdistsquared
}

This may be horrendously poorly optimized but it seems to work :)

One thing I was thinking was not using square root at all, but still keeping it so the alpha would be above 1.0 before the start fading distance and reach 0.0 and the end distance. It wouldn't fade out linearly, but rather like a parabola. I'm not sure how this would look...

It's too bad OpenGL fog doesn't just support this kind of thing!

Thanks though, even the psuedo code will help me get a quick start.

[David]

One thing I was thinking was not using square root at all, but still keeping it so the alpha would be above 1.0 before the start fading distance and reach 0.0 and the end distance. It wouldn't fade out linearly, but rather like a parabola. I'm not sure how this would look...

That's what I do :p

Maz: if you get slashed too many times you will bleed to death up to a second or two after being attacked, which might be what you're talking about.

Erazorhead:
Bug #1... fixed :)
#2 I think people really have a fov of about 180, maybe I'm just a freak but if I put my face facing up against the wall I can see the corners of a rectangular room. (just tried that) The rabbits should actually see more than this given that their eyes are more on the sides of their head, but they don't :p

[Holmes]

Originally posted by David
That's what I do :p

Maz: if you get slashed too many times you will bleed to death up to a second or two after being attacked, which might be what you're talking about.

Erazorhead:
Bug #1... fixed :)
#2 I think people really have a fov of about 180, maybe I'm just a freak but if I put my face facing up against the wall I can see the corners of a rectangular room. (just tried that) The rabbits should actually see more than this given that their eyes are more on the sides of their head, but they don't :p

Yeah...I just realized that after reviewing the pseudo code :p

was wondering how you could get square roots without using them :p

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by David
Maz: if you get slashed too many times you will bleed to death up to a second or two after being attacked, which might be what you're talking about.

Ah, that's it. You might want to change the animation to make it more obvious what's happening; perhaps something along the lines of the character falling to his knees while clutching his chest would work better.

[diordna]

No, people do NOT have 180 degrees of vision. It's more like 120-140 with the 140-160 where we can only see movement. Or something like that.

But not 180.

Oh, and I think enemies should be able to hear you if you're running/walking but not if you're crouching.

[w_reade]

I just did what David did with a wall and I have a >180 degree field of vision, even though I can't really focus my awareness on more than a few degrees of it at once. And no, I'm not moving my eyes.

Incidentally, I believe women have a significantly wider field of awareness than men; the theory goes that our eyes/brain are optimised for hunting (throwing things at a distant target), whereas women's are optimised for gathering (nuts here, berries there, little mushrooms everywhere...).

I've also heard that fighter pilots are trained to broaden their foa, so it's not completely hardwired...

[erazorhead]

small bugs

some rabbits that carry knives have no belt.

i just back-knifed a rabbit who had a knife. i crouched over him to pick up the knife from his back, and turner went through the animation of pulling the knife from his back, but it was still there after i took it. i had taken the other knife (on his belt) although my hand had grabbed the back-knife and pulled it out. it was in slow-motion so i saw it clearly.

a friend mentioned this; when you parry a sweep and you're holding a knife or sword, you apparenly slit their throat (knife) or plunge your sword through their neck. it does not appear to be something anybody would live through. i guess the animation should be changed a little? (as opposed to sweep-parries being instant kills ;) )

[NCarter]

Originally posted by erazorhead
i just back-knifed a rabbit who had a knife. i crouched over him to pick up the knife from his back, and turner went through the animation of pulling the knife from his back, but it was still there after i took it. i had taken the other knife (on his belt) although my hand had grabbed the back-knife and pulled it out.

Also, if there's a knife stuck in the back of a bunny and it's under the body (so you can't get at it), you can't pick up the one in his belt that you should be able to reach.

Speaking of which, I find picking up weapons incredibly fiddly. If you aren't close enough, nothing happens, and if you're not careful while trying to crawl into position, you end up rolling around or getting kicked in the chin. I wouldn't mind so much if the enemy bunnies didn't pick up weapons flawlessly every time! One way of improving this would be for the player to automatically crawl towards slightly out-of-range weapons when the pickup command occurs (rather than having them magically jump into his hand!).

BTW, I like the way you can occasionally fatally slash a jumping enemy with the sword so that their flying body torpedoes into the ground miles away! :lol:

[diordna]

I'm still on the older "lite" version, but if you kick the dead rabbit over you can get your knife back.

[erazorhead]

also, sometimes you can pick up a knife during a somersault, and sometimes not. it seems to depend on how it was dropped?

[NCarter]

Originally posted by diordna
I'm still on the older "lite" version, but if you kick the dead rabbit over you can get your knife back.

True, but what I mean is that if there are two knives on a bunny, one in his belt and one in his back, you're not allowed to take the one in his belt because you can't reach the one in his back. You can roll him over to get at the knife as usual, but why wouldn't you just pick up the one you can get at instead?

[morgant]

Made the Inside Mac Games (http://www.insidemacgames.com/) front page news again (with Lugaru this time). Impressive, David :D

[ERaZer]

Way to go, David!

I can't wait to play the next build(I only have an old build, and the download is down for the newest), this game kicks ass! Major ass!

[erazorhead]

what? where? i don't see it

EDIT: nevermind, found it
http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=7859

[OneSadCookie]

Just got this in the latest. Looks similar to one I've posted before...

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x3f918d11

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x0025fd60 in Objects::SphereCheckPossible(XYZ *, float)
#1 0x0023c5b4 in 0x23c5b4
#2 0x00254e50 in 0x254e50
#3 0x0020bdd8 in 0x20bdd8
#4 0x001e2580 in DoUpdate(void)
#5 0x001e27c0 in IdleTimer
#6 0x90163230 in __CFRunLoopDoTimer
#7 0x90148d28 in __CFRunLoopRun
#8 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#9 0x969a3b70 in RunCurrentEventLoopInMode
#10 0x969a41f4 in GetNextEventMatchingMask
#11 0x969a8054 in WNEInternal
#12 0x969adf0c in WaitNextEvent
#13 0x001e2614 in WaitNextEventWrapper(unsigned short, EventRecord *, unsigned long, OpaqueRgnHandle *)
#14 0x001e287c in DoEvent(void)
#15 0x001e2b30 in main

Thread 1:
#0 0x90073c48 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005f90 in mach_msg
#2 0x901489f0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x94d9c1c0 in HALRunLoop::OwnThread(void*)
#5 0x94d911b0 in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#6 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

Thread 2:
#0 0x90042688 in semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap
#1 0x9003e8b4 in _pthread_cond_wait
#2 0x94d83ac4 in CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long)
#3 0x94d832b0 in CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long)
#4 0x94d822e0 in XThreadedDevice::IOThread()
#5 0x94d95a24 in XThreadedDevice::IOThreadEntry(void*)
#6 0x94d911b0 in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#7 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

Thread 3:
#0 0x90041ba8 in mach_wait_until
#1 0x90263c3c in MPDelayUntil
#2 0x0029df38 in 0x29df38
#3 0x002a2e34 in 0x2a2e34
#4 0x902b739c in _MP_CFMTaskProc
#5 0x9025d924 in PrivateMPEntryPoint
#6 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x0025fd60 srr1: 0x0000f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x0023c5b4 ctr: 0x0028ee90 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x3f2a4971 r1: 0xbfffd960 r2: 0x0032f000 r3: 0x00000000
r4: 0x3f2a1f3d r5: 0xfff7c0c0 r6: 0x80000004 r7: 0x00000020
r8: 0x00000006 r9: 0x00000002 r10: 0x00000000 r11: 0xa02219e4
r12: 0x003293ac r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000014
r16: 0x02e045ec r17: 0x02dfffe0 r18: 0x015a0cfc r19: 0x002a5f60
r20: 0x02e04604 r21: 0x02e045e0 r22: 0x02dffe24 r23: 0x02e045d4
r24: 0x0172772c r25: 0x02dffe50 r26: 0x006743a0 r27: 0x02e04610
r28: 0x00388c64 r29: 0x02e045d4 r30: 0x006743a0 r31: 0x0172772c

[David]

If it had to do with weapons, I may have fixed it :)

What was going on when this happened?

[OneSadCookie]

I just got knifed while backflipping, I think.

The frame-rate problem is due to motion blur. Turning blur on with B shows it up consistently and much sooner after program startup than usual. This is also consistent with my experience that it only happens when rabbits are swinging weapons a lot. Turning Blur off in the config file fixes the problem.

The fact that there's a delay before it starts happening makes me suspect that you're leaking memory (possibly VRAM). Mac OS X has a few good tools for finding memory leaks, but you may have to build the app as Mach-O to use them...

Incidentally, I lost all the particle textures again.

Also, in recent builds I've started flying through rabbits again. It was much better a couple of builds ago.

[David]

New version up at http://wolfire.com/LugaruBetaTest.sit

Mostly just bug fixes, please let me know if anything goes wrong (or is still not working, etc.)

Hopefully it's all good and I can actually add stuff :)

[OneSadCookie]

Sorry :(

Blur bug's still not fixed. It might be a bit better, but not much. I can hear my hard disk churning, so it's almost certainly a leak.

Still can't pick up a weapon from a body if there's a knife stuck in the wrong side.

Slow-motion-mode (B) gets summarily exited if a game-generated blur effect ends. Not a real biggie.

[Darth_Bob]

DUDE!!!!! David is like my hero now! Finally an original idea! It's like the Matrix with rabbits!! Great music and environments!! This is awesome!!!:blink: :ohmy: :D :wow:

EDIT: But how come the player can't use knives in the third level when the two opponents have them?

[OneSadCookie]

You have to steal the weapons when you don't start with them...

Flying through rabbits is also still broken, though it does seem better than the previous version.

There's a new weird-cool bug, sometimes when two enemy rabbits stand too close to each other, they explode apart as if each hit the other with the spin-kick...

[Dreadful Lemon]

Would it be possible to have a victory dance or a taunt? Wouldn't be too hard, and if it goes multiplayer, it would be maddening. Just imagine turner doing an annoying pelvic thrust, after kicking a wolf face first into a brick wall.


Right from your own webpage, David:
"He woke up a few hours later, took his hatchet from his house and doggedly set off after the wolves..."

I'd either change that, or give us a hatchet. :wow: (If it is already in the game, disregard the previous sentance.)

Lugaru OWNS. And I'm playing an older ultralite version. :cool:

Good Luck!

[ERaZer]

Dreadful Lemon, play the newest version(or atleast a newer version), it owns a lot more :)

I also still get the "fly trought the enemies bug", and I also experienced the bug where two enemies just explode when they are near each other, and that only happened for me when they where chashing me...
Oh, and the "can't pick up knife if in wrong place" bug still is in place. And while we are talking about knifes(don't know actually if this is a bug or not), I was standing rather near the enemy, and I stood looking at him and he had his back against me(he hadn't noticed I was there) so I throwed my knife and he throwed it much to much to the left of the enemy. I was playing on difficulty=1.

I had just completed a level(I didn't know I had, I tought there was an enemy rabbit left), and I changed to Map-Editing mode. It started to load the next level, and it did. But when the next level started, it seemed to reload it constantly(with only a few seconds pause between each reload) until you shut off Map-Editing mode. I could however put it on directly after and it worked.

Keep going with this great game, David!

[Dreadful Lemon]

Just downloaded the new version, its nifty. :ninja:

However, I expirienced a bug in the desert level- I decided to run out in the desert with an enemy rabbit behind me. I threw my knife at him, and turned on slow mo. Needless to say he did not survive. However, as I walked towards him to reclaim my lost weapon, I noticed he was writhing on the ground. At first I thought, "Good god, he's still alive!" Then I realized he wasn't getting up. Shrugging, I picked up the dagger and plunged it into his corpse multiple times. I still had slow-mo on. The dead animal continued to shudder and wiggle.

I kicked him over, and he stopped. I have been unable to reproduce this error.

[macboy]

I'm downloading the newest version right now, but I doubt David made the rabbits writhe. Was it possible he was sliding down a hill or anything? That happens a lot.

[OneSadCookie]

In the fort, one of the rabbits (the knife-wielding one) jumped off a block and got stuck between the block and a tree. Knocking the tree around (with dead bodies) didn't dislodge him. I couldn't jump onto him from above. When I jumped up to see if I could get him from below, I got stuck. Dodgy screenshot with my head between his legs available on request...

Rabbits seem even more prone to ignoring weapons in the latest build. Having once ignored them for whatever reason, they'll seldom go back later. Makes things much easier, but it's not good for the whole suspension of disbelief thing...

[NCarter]

Apart from the 'pairs of bunnies exploding apart' bug, the latest build is looking pretty excellent to me.

Just one thing that's bugging me: I think there needs to be more balance between armed and unarmed combat. You'd expect someone with a sword to be more dangerous than someone fighting empty handed, of course, but it's now very difficult to get an attack past an armed enemy without getting slashed.

Perhaps you could make it impossible to counter some kinds of attack if you have your hands full. For example, sword wielding bunnies probably shouldn't be able to do a counter which requires both hands (like the flying kick counter).

A couple of other suggestions:

How about using vocal sounds to indicate damage or give audible warnings?
How about adding a wolf model? ;)

[David]

Fixed the exploding enemies and other collisions I think...

OSC I think for now you should just turn Blur off, it doesn't work on some machines for some reason.

Taunts, hatchets, vocals, and wolves are planned :)

The writhing on the ground was not intentional... but I think I'll just label it a random feature.

Getting stuck in v-shaped crevices is also a bug, but I'm going to try and fix that one.

The picking up knives from impaled bunnies issue is a bug, but I think I'll put it off till later because it doesn't seem as hugely important as some others. Or maybe I'll just make it so you always try and pick weapons off their belt first.

Glad you like it Darth :)

The weapons are supposed to be somewhat overwhelmingly powerful to encourage stealth and some of the less-used moves like wall-kicks and rabbit-kicks. You won't encounter sword-wielding enemies until later in the game, where you'll already have a sword and be able to parry and disarm.

I won't be able to upload anything for a while, since at Stanford the in-room connections are disabled until monday or tuesday so all I can do is use the computer lab.

[David]

Actually I was wrong, I fixed the knife bug and uploaded to http://wolfire.com/LugaruBetaTest.sit

Gotta love the power of the ipod, and Stanford's 700 K/sec upload speed!

[Holmes]

Just an insane note:

Wouldn't it be great if the bunnies sort of spoke to eachother while they hovered over your dead body?

<Sqeaky voice>

"*ugh* hard days work...lets get some carrots"

"Sounds good, Bill"

</Sqeaky voice>

[ERaZer]

Originally posted by Holmes
Just an insane note:

Wouldn't it be great if the bunnies sort of spoke to eachother while they hovered over your dead body?

<Sqeaky voice>

"*ugh* hard days work...lets get some carrots"

"Sounds good, Bill"

</Sqeaky voice>
I was thinking the same thing before when I was playing, and perhaps they should react more when they see a dead friend, like they run up(unless they see you first) and get angry/sad or something.

[Darth_Bob]

This is a fighting game guys. Can't turn into a soap opera. It would be cool for them to speak gibberish though (or rabbitish or something). That way you wouldn't have to match up the conversations or anything. And they could sort of yelp or squeek when they get hit or die. That'd rock.

[NCarter]

Originally posted by David
The weapons are supposed to be somewhat overwhelmingly powerful to encourage stealth and some of the less-used moves like wall-kicks and rabbit-kicks. You won't encounter sword-wielding enemies until later in the game, where you'll already have a sword and be able to parry and disarm.

Fair enough! My problem with using stealthy attacks is that it's too easy, so it isn't so much fun. I can easily clear level five in a few seconds by throwing knives from behind, but it's a real struggle if you try to fight them fairly. I'm sure it'll make more sense in the finished product!

How do you do a wall kick? Is that something different from jumping again when you hit a wall?

BTW, I noticed another bug: sometimes I see small round black marks on the ground. I think they're blood splatter decals with the wrong texture.

Originally posted by Holmes
Just an insane note:

Wouldn't it be great if the bunnies sort of spoke to eachother while they hovered over your dead body?

<Sqeaky voice>

"*ugh* hard days work...lets get some carrots"

"Sounds good, Bill"

</Sqeaky voice>

...except it would be like Deus Ex on drugs. Very silly! :)

[David]

I'm going to do something similar to what Darth Bob said, they're going to speak rabbitish with subtitles that get fainter as you move farther away. :) Lots and lots of dialogue planned here, considering how little space it would take.

Wall Kick = jump off walls while holding click near a (preferably 'softened up') enemy

The blood is sometimes black for some reason, that doesn't happen too often though. It's also always pretty dark on the grass because it soaks in.

[macboy]

I know everybody already knows this, and it already does, but this game is gonna ROCK!! I can't even think of an excuse some horrible little VT reviewer would give :p

New bug in the newest version: Once the rabbits start chasing you, they don't stop, they can see you if you're a mile away :rolleyes: - I think you need to fix that ;)

[AJ Infinity]

I have always wondered if we would start a Lugaru forum. I think somebody mentioned this before.

BTW, this is the LONGEST thread I have ever seen in my life.

macboy: I can imagine evil reviews comparing the game to DOA, etc.

>Taunts
"Get yer cotton tailed ass over here!"

damn, I'm tired (coding all night plus playing ChronoTrigger)

[ERaZer]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
macboy: I can imagine evil reviews comparing the game to DOA, etc.

Well, in my opinion, this game already almost owns DOA...

[AJ Infinity]

Yup. I just like the dialogue, characters, and <hint>DETAILED REALISTIC ENVIRONMENTS</hint> of DOA3.

[NCarter]

Originally posted by David
Wall Kick = jump off walls while holding click near a (preferably 'softened up') enemy

The blood is sometimes black for some reason, that doesn't happen too often though. It's also always pretty dark on the grass because it soaks in.

Thanks for the wall kick hint, David.

I'm still seeing that blank textured snow and dust particle problem, although it now goes away when the next level loads. I wonder if this problem and the one with blood splats having the wrong texture are actually some kind of OpenGL state problem. Maybe some previous object is changing some state and it's not being reset to the correct value before the textured quads get drawn.

Originally posted by macboy
New bug in the newest version: Once the rabbits start chasing you, they don't stop, they can see you if you're a mile away :rolleyes: - I think you need to fix that ;)

On the other hand, sometimes they stop chasing you even when you're very close. For example, if you jump away, they sometimes just stand there and look at you until you hit the ground again.

[morgant]

I see you can get slashed with a sword while crouching now, hehe. So much for fists-vs-sword being even remotely ballanced.

Also still run into the "flying through enemies" bug. Usually it's when I try to do a running kick, but this time I got kicked by an enemy and flew through another enemy. I think that should have knocked over the other enemy. Also, when the enemies grab you out of the air to counter a running kick, how is it that you pass through them and then they manage to pull you down to the ground? It just looks weird to me... those black rabbits seem to pull that one off 100% of the time, the running kicks rarely work on them. :(

Anyway, keeps getting better and better with every update. :) Can't wait to see the hatchet and wolves!

BTW - Stanford? When did that happen?!

[Iceman]

This game looks better every time I download it. Make sure to send it to like Macworld and see if you can win something cool:D. I have OS 10.1.5 500mhz g3 and I get 10 f.p.s., but the game doesn't hiccup or look slow at all. What do you use to do this? Is it some kind of minor motion blur?

Thanks,
Iceman

B.t.w. I haven't accidently touched the command-z keys once! Thanks.

[erazorhead]

i was in the sandy desert level and something strange happened. i was walking to go kill the final guy when i saw a knife just hanging in the air, at about chest level, midway between two blocks. i walked around it, confused by it. then the last rabbit saw me and started running at me with his knife, at which point the hanging-in-the-air knife disappeared.

i immediately slayed the final rabbit with my sword and three or four seconds later, the disappearing texture thing happened. i don't know if it was a coincidence or not, but it was the first time it had happened to me in this new version ("lugaru beta test" version)

[macboy]

That first bug, where a knife hangs in the air, can also occur if you delete a rabbit with a weapon in the map editor. ;)

[Parsap]

Originally posted by morgant
I see you can get slashed with a sword while crouching now, hehe. So much for fists-vs-sword being even remotely ballanced.
Don't forget that you can disarm them by pressing shift and you can dodge a slash by doing a handspring.

[Darth_Bob]

I can see it now: Lugaru the cartoon show.

[Quicksilver]

Shit, This thread could be a novel some day.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by Parsap
Don't forget that you can disarm them by pressing shift

?
you can?
i can't

[Mazilurik]

Lugaru just crashed while I was fighting an enemy armed with a knife; here's the crash log:


Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0xe0a98f50

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x001f6554 in 0x1f6554
#1 0x00221e2c in Objects::SphereCheckPossible(XYZ *, float)
#2 0x001fd484 in 0x1fd484
#3 0x00216b50 in 0x216b50
#4 0x001cc3dc in 0x1cc3dc
#5 0x001a26d0 in DoUpdate(void)
#6 0x001a2910 in IdleTimer
#7 0x90163230 in __CFRunLoopDoTimer
#8 0x90148d28 in __CFRunLoopRun
#9 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#10 0x969a3b70 in RunCurrentEventLoopInMode
#11 0x969a41f4 in GetNextEventMatchingMask
#12 0x969a8054 in WNEInternal
#13 0x969adf0c in WaitNextEvent
#14 0x001a2764 in WaitNextEventWrapper(unsigned short, EventRecord *, unsigned long, OpaqueRgnHandle *)
#15 0x001a29cc in DoEvent(void)
#16 0x001a2c80 in main

Thread 1:
#0 0x90073c48 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005f90 in mach_msg
#2 0x901489f0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x94d9c1c0 in HALRunLoop::OwnThread(void*)
#5 0x94d911b0 in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#6 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

Thread 2:
#0 0x90042688 in semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap
#1 0x9003e8b4 in _pthread_cond_wait
#2 0x94d83ac4 in CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long)
#3 0x94d832b0 in CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long)
#4 0x94d822e0 in XThreadedDevice::IOThread()
#5 0x94d95a24 in XThreadedDevice::IOThreadEntry(void*)
#6 0x94d911b0 in CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*)
#7 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

Thread 3:
#0 0x90041ba8 in mach_wait_until
#1 0x90263c3c in MPDelayUntil
#2 0x00260280 in 0x260280
#3 0x00265298 in 0x265298
#4 0x902b739c in _MP_CFMTaskProc
#5 0x9025d924 in PrivateMPEntryPoint
#6 0x90020d48 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x001f6554 srr1: 0x0000f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x001f6550 ctr: 0x002505c0 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x00000000 r1: 0xbfffd8d0 r2: 0x002ee000 r3: 0x02dbdd64
r4: 0xbfffd910 r5: 0xca96989d r6: 0xafb1b6b3 r7: 0xb5baacaf
r8: 0x00000006 r9: 0x00000002 r10: 0x00000184 r11: 0xa02219e4
r12: 0x002e831c r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x02dbdd7c r17: 0x02db9770 r18: 0x0155a48c r19: 0x00268c70
r20: 0x02dbdd94 r21: 0x02dbdd70 r22: 0x02db95b4 r23: 0x02dbdd64
r24: 0x016e0ebc r25: 0x02db95e0 r26: 0x0062db30 r27: 0x0c6ef324
r28: 0x00268b68 r29: 0x0466f5ec r30: 0x02dbdd64 r31: 0xe0a98f18

I had one or two similar crashes with older versions of the game, but the crash logs were about the same.

[Dreadful Lemon]

A minor bug I've noticed is that, in the second level (with the big block where the enemies wander) if you hang onto the ledge, your ears stick over the side. The enemies are completely obvlivious to this. :)

[OneSadCookie]

A more concerning bug in Level 2 happens fairly repeatedly when I do this:

At the beginning of the level, draw and drop the knife as fast as possible (this just for timing reasons). Run towards the right side of the block, jump up. The rabbit immediately in front of you is walking away. Sneak attack, flipping him over your shoulder. Now you're facing the other rabbit, who's just noticed you. Slam the dead body. If you haven't moved, this'll punt it straight into the other guy, who flies &mdash; get this &mdash; not away from you, but towards you, over your head.

Some fundamental laws of physics being violated here...

[ERaZer]

Originally posted by erazorhead
?
you can?
i can't
Yeah, you can. I did it, not at all aware that you could, and since i was intending to do something else, I slashed him too. It looked really cool, and I was :???: :lol: :wow: :cool:

[diordna]

Lite version please...

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by Dreadful Lemon
A minor bug I've noticed is that, in the second level (with the big block where the enemies wander) if you hang onto the ledge, your ears stick over the side. The enemies are completely obvlivious to this. :)

this happens in every level. i wouldn't call it a "bug" per se, i actually prefer the game this way. to be able to hang off a ledge until they turn their backs, then jump up and get them from behind is good gameplay in my book :)

[erazorhead]

ghost weapons finally caught on camera! PROOF that the government DOESN'T want you to see! (http://untitled.waferbaby.com/misc/hangingsword.jpg)

[Darth_Bob]

Wow, that's pretty trippy.

[FreakSoftware]

How are there 31 pages for this thing?! The original link is dead, so I'm wondering where the current file is. I'm not going to go look through 31 pages!

[Parsap]

Originally posted by FreakSoftware
How are there 31 pages for this thing?! The original link is dead, so I'm wondering where the current file is. I'm not going to go look through 31 pages!

42 pages actually. :) I believe this is the latest link: http://wolfire.com/LugaruBetaTest.sit

[FreakSoftware]

32 for me. Well anywho, thanks for the link.

[David]

Lugaru will kick DOA's *** :)

I'm still seeing that blank textured snow and dust particle problem, although it now goes away when the next level loads. I wonder if this problem and the one with blood splats having the wrong texture are actually some kind of OpenGL state problem. Maybe some previous object is changing some state and it's not being reset to the correct value before the textured quads get drawn.

I was thinking that, but it doesn't seem to be it. It seems like it's writing to VRAM somewhere and overwriting some of the sprite textures, or something.

Yeah the enemies don't see your ears, but I figured in this case it would be best that they didn't (they're nearsighted, you know). :p

Yup you can disarm enemies by countering attacks, same as any other move except you have to be really close (sword has longer range than the unarmed sword counter) but it's easier vs. knives.

Uploading at 1100 KB/s........ done :D

http://wolfire.com/LugaruBetaTest.sit
http://wolfire.com/LugaruBetaTestLite.sit

Nothing hugely spectacular, just a few bug fixes, haven't had much time recently :/ I will soon though :)

[erazorhead]

first crash i've seen in ages... :( :( sorry, david; i hate to bring bad news..

i was just playing on the desert level, being gang-knifed-to-death by three or four guys simultaneously, it appeared to crash just as i died - just the old "lugaru has unexpectedly quit (ok)" dialog box

knives seem ultra-powerful now -- going to have to figure out why i keep getting brutalized by knife-weilding bunnies so much more often than i used to.

[David]

Hmm... was the crash reproducible? Strange. :/

I'm pretty sure I didn't change the knives though.

[erazorhead]

haven't reproduced it yet...

currently fighting with the map editor (i think you should be invincible when in map editor mode -- several times i accidentally killed myself and had to start alllll over)

[David]

Hmm that would probably make sense

[ERaZer]

Pressing H is a bit of an option(adds 2000 healt), I usually do it once in a while in map editor mode.
Invinciblity would be good, but as a toggle option since you might want to try stuff out.
Pausing the enemies as a toggle option would be great aswell.

[David]

Minor patch (just the app) at http://wolfire.com/Lugaru(update).sit

Changes:
-Invincible in map editor
-Some minor bug fixes
-Compiled with optimizations on to test how fast the final version might run

This is not compatible with the lite files :/

[morgant]

Seems quite a bit more difficult than previous versions. It also feels much faster, although I haven't turned the FPS counter on yet to see by how much.

It reloads the level as soon as you die, which feels a little too harsh. It doesn't really give you a whole lot of time to figure out what just happened. Somewhere in-between this and the previous versions would be nice... not a long wait, but not reloading before you've even hit the ground.

Also, just got the following crash:

**********
Date/Time: 2003-06-26 22:32:02 -0400
OS Version: 10.2.6 (Build 6L60)
Host: Gizmo.local.

Command: Lugaru(update)
PID: 1619

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x09fb8f0e

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x0020c3c0 in Objects::SphereCheckPossible(XYZ *, float)
#1 0x001ec918 in 0x1ec918
#2 0x00203554 in 0x203554
#3 0x001c94ac in 0x1c94ac
#4 0x001a1f78 in DoUpdate(void)
#5 0x001a21b0 in IdleTimer
#6 0x90163230 in __CFRunLoopDoTimer
#7 0x90148d28 in __CFRunLoopRun
#8 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#9 0x969a3b70 in RunCurrentEventLoopInMode
#10 0x969a41f4 in GetNextEventMatchingMask
#11 0x969a8054 in WNEInternal
#12 0x969adf0c in WaitNextEvent
#13 0x001a2000 in WaitNextEventWrapper(unsigned short, EventRecord *, unsigned long, OpaqueRgnHandle *)
#14 0x001a2268 in DoEvent(void)
#15 0x001a24f4 in main

Thread 1:
#0 0x90073c28 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005f70 in mach_msg
#2 0x901489f0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90180f58 in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x94d9c1c0 in _ZN10HALRunLoop9OwnThreadEPv
#5 0x94d911b0 in _ZN9CAPThread5EntryEPS_
#6 0x90020d28 in _pthread_body

Thread 2:
#0 0x90042668 in semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap
#1 0x9003e894 in _pthread_cond_wait
#2 0x94d83ac4 in _ZN7CAGuard7WaitForEy
#3 0x94d832b0 in _ZN7CAGuard9WaitUntilEy
#4 0x94d822e0 in _ZN15XThreadedDevice8IOThreadEv
#5 0x94d95a24 in _ZN15XThreadedDevice13IOThreadEntryEPv
#6 0x94d911b0 in _ZN9CAPThread5EntryEPS_
#7 0x90020d28 in _pthread_body

Thread 3:
#0 0x90041b88 in mach_wait_until
#1 0x90263c3c in MPDelayUntil
#2 0x00248970 in 0x248970
#3 0x0024d988 in 0x24d988
#4 0x902b739c in _MP_CFMTaskProc
#5 0x9025d924 in PrivateMPEntryPoint
#6 0x90020d28 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x0020c3c0 srr1: 0x0000f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x001ec918 ctr: 0x00238cb0 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x099a33ce r1: 0xbfffd950 r2: 0x002d6000 r3: 0x00000000
r4: 0x099a099a r5: 0x00000000 r6: 0x0000039e r7: 0x00000f39
r8: 0x00251368 r9: 0x02da158c r10: 0x00000004 r11: 0xa02219e4
r12: 0x002d031c r13: 0x02da1780 r14: 0x016c8ecc r15: 0x002ee5bc
r16: 0x002ee414 r17: 0x0032a364 r18: 0x02da5e74 r19: 0x02da5db0
r20: 0x02da5d80 r21: 0x00251368 r22: 0x02da5da4 r23: 0x02da5cfc
r24: 0x02da5d08 r25: 0x02da5d14 r26: 0x02da5d20 r27: 0x02da5d2c
r28: 0x02da5d38 r29: 0x00615b40 r30: 0x02da5d74 r31: 0x016c8ecc
I have no idea how to read these things (I should really figure that out some day soon), but is it implying that the crash may be in SphereCheckPossible()? All of the other crash logs from other people look pretty much the same.

[David]

I think it means it's in spherecheckpossible. It seems like all these crashes are in spherecheckpossible. I think I just fixed the crash in spherecheckpossible. We'll see :D

I haven't changed the difficulty in quite a while, or at least I don't think I have. It now respawns when you click, which I suppose will be instantaneous if you are clicking a lot. Maybe it should be when you jump or something. Yeah, I'll do that.

I'm glad it seems to be running faster :) I usually compile with optimizations off to save time, with moderately complex stuff it makes it take approx 20x longer to compile.

[morgant]

I don't think it's necessarily that you changed the difficulty, more that the AI seems to use the knives & swords better now. They definitely are much more accurate with the weapons than I ever will be, and I can't usually seem to disarm them (occasionally I do, but I don't realize until a second later what happened... and it only works with knives) and still can't get close enough to disarm a sword wielding rabbit.

I'm going to go work on getting all of the moves/counters/disarms down.

BTW - do you realize how hilarious some of the quotes we get discussing this game are? 'I still can't get close enough to disarm a sword wielding rabbit' is pretty funny taken out of context... my girlfriend has a quote from me mumbling 'I don't understand why the other rabbits don't care when I light myself on fire.' :p

[ERaZer]

Originally posted by morgant
BTW - do you realize how hilarious some of the quotes we get discussing this game are? 'I still can't get close enough to disarm a sword wielding rabbit' is pretty funny taken out of context... my girlfriend has a quote from me mumbling 'I don't understand why the other rabbits don't care when I light myself on fire.' :p
Hehe, :lol:

I like to put on slow mo, and do cool moves. It just looks so cool :) And if you light yourself on fire, have map edit on, do slow mo and then fly you can make it look really cool :)
Ok, maybe I'm a little nuts sitting around for an hour doing stuff like that :P

I had this weirdest bug, I was in map edit mode and a rabbit was chasing me(this was in the version without invinciblity in the map editor, and in level 2) and I got near a wall and I jumped, and I got inside the wall and flied forever, and the rabbit that chased me did the same. I could get lose if I flied for a bit, and then released the jump button, and then repeat. It took some time but I got lose.

[diordna]

You should add the ability to skydive if you jump from high enough up.

[macboy]

Originally posted by diordna
You should add the ability to skydive if you jump from high enough up. And crash your head on the ground? ;)

[David]

going to have to figure out why i keep getting brutalized by knife-weilding bunnies so much more often than i used to.

That sentence is a bit odd (and disturbing) as well :p

I don't know if I mentioned this in the readme, but if you hold the mouse button it will wait until the enemy is in range to attack; this is essentially what the enemies do.

Whoa, one of the enemies could fly? Strange.

Diving sounds interesting, I might add a key combination for that ala Tomb Raider if/when I add water :) Not sure about skydiving though :p

[erazorhead]

the update definitely runs it smoother for me

here is a sh**-ton of suggestions. i hope it's not a bad time. ;p
i believe none of these have been mentioned yet, but if i'm wrong, then apologies.

(deep breath)

- this one seems like more of a bug, but i can only pick up knife while somersaulting or handspringing about 45% of the time. and never when i have another weapon on my belt.

- sort of on that topic, wouldn't it be sweet if, when you were in slow motion, you could grab weapons out of the air? you roundhouse kick a guy in the head and his hand releases the sword, you grab it before it hits the ground and swing it around to slay the guy behind you about to knife you. god damn. i guess this would not be used very often though. oh well. i was just fantasizing i guess. :?:

- i would like to be able to do the (hold mouse and hit spacebar) rabbit-kick while jumping

- if bleeding to death, i think the dying animation should be different (add spurting blood? or a wobbly stumble?) so i can tell that i bled to death. i often can't tell in the heat of battle why i suddenly died.

- the blood pool under dead enemies should start sooner and go a wee bit slower.

- enemies' knife-swipe hits way too often... shouldn't hit when you are somersaulting, handspringing, etc. both parties knife-swiping and hitting one another is too common - one should prevail and the other shouldn't connect.

- enemy sword swipe shouldn't hit while you are somersaulting.

- knife-swipe does too much bleeding damage. maybe two or three perfectly-executed swipes against a non-moving, non-resisting target could make someone instantly bleed to death, but in these kind of fighting situations, most of the cuts would be more superficial than that, i think. two knife swipes killing you is bad for gameplay (and realism IMO)

- damage effects from knife, like darkening screen, red flash, etc should be optional.

- sword slash should take longer - a two handed, really forceful, swinging the sword all the way around type attack would make it slightly dodge-able, and also add credibility to the one-hit kill. although i'm not sure about this one - what do you all think?

- when you counter+disarm a knife-swipe, the knife still hits you. that sucks.

- sword 'finishing stab' always makes their legs twitch. even if you don't hit them with it. not a big deal.

- shouldn't have to hold towards the direction of the wall when wall-jumping. if the player is hitting jump again, and they're right near a wall, they want to be wall-jumping. no need to specify which direction you'll be wall-jumping from. i only mention it because the directions are camera-relative and it's intuitive for me to point the camera away from the wall right before i wall-jump so i see where i'm going, and this makes wall-jumps impossible because i'm holding forward.

- does an unsuccessful air-recover hurt more than a simple fall would have? it shouldn't, in my opinion. but i can't tell if it does or not

- when holding a weapon, some parries (sweep counter most noticeably) plunge the weapon through the enemy's torso/head/etc. but somehow don't cut. also the sword counter+disarm move swings the sword through the enemy's body with no noticeable ill effects.

[erazorhead]

oh also i made a level

towers map (http://www.rroland.net/misc/towers.sit)

unstuff to the Maps folder in the Lugaru folder.

to play, hit ~ (tilde), type in "map towers" and hit return

let's see some others' maps! i can't be the only one who's played with the map editor..

[David]

Very cool map :)

When making towers though it is probably best to alternate sizes from .95 to 1 or so to get rid of z-buffer fighting.

- this one seems like more of a bug, but i can only pick up knife while somersaulting or handspringing about 45% of the time. and never when i have another weapon on my belt.

*fixed* btw you can only pick up loose weapons, not ones attached to belts or internal organs :p

- sort of on that topic, wouldn't it be sweet if, when you were in slow motion, you could grab weapons out of the air? you roundhouse kick a guy in the head and his hand releases the sword, you grab it before it hits the ground and swing it around to slay the guy behind you about to knife you.

*done*

- i would like to be able to do the (hold mouse and hit spacebar) rabbit-kick while jumping

This is a possibility. I kind of want to downplay jumping though, because despite it being a bunny game, I have a feeling the multiplayer games would turn into lots of bunny hopping rather than hand-to-hand duels.

- if bleeding to death, i think the dying animation should be different (add spurting blood? or a wobbly stumble?) so i can tell that i bled to death. i often can't tell in the heat of battle why i suddenly died.

*added red flash when you bleed to death*

- the blood pool under dead enemies should start sooner and go a wee bit slower.

*fixed*

- enemies' knife-swipe hits way too often... shouldn't hit when you are somersaulting, handspringing, etc. both parties knife-swiping and hitting one another is too common - one should prevail and the other shouldn't connect.

*fixed*

- knife-swipe does too much bleeding damage. maybe two or three perfectly-executed swipes against a non-moving, non-resisting target could make someone instantly bleed to death, but in these kind of fighting situations, most of the cuts would be more superficial than that, i think. two knife swipes killing you is bad for gameplay (and realism IMO)

*fixed*

- damage effects from knife, like darkening screen, red flash, etc should be optional.

They are :)

- sword slash should take longer - a two handed, really forceful, swinging the sword all the way around type attack would make it slightly dodge-able, and also add credibility to the one-hit kill. although i'm not sure about this one - what do you all think?

Naw, I think I'll keep two-handed attacks to the weapon vs. weapon moves. It SHOULD be challenging to take on a guy with a sword if you're unarmed.

- when you counter+disarm a knife-swipe, the knife still hits you. that sucks.

Depends on if you are countering the actual attack or taking advantage of follow-through :)

- sword 'finishing stab' always makes their legs twitch. even if you don't hit them with it. not a big deal.

*fixed*

- shouldn't have to hold towards the direction of the wall when wall-jumping. if the player is hitting jump again, and they're right near a wall, they want to be wall-jumping. no need to specify which direction you'll be wall-jumping from. i only mention it because the directions are camera-relative and it's intuitive for me to point the camera away from the wall right before i wall-jump so i see where i'm going, and this makes wall-jumps impossible because i'm holding forward.

I just tried jumping at a wall and then jumping off of it while turning around and holding forwards :/ I can't seem to reproduce this problem.

- does an unsuccessful air-recover hurt more than a simple fall would have? it shouldn't, in my opinion. but i can't tell if it does or not

It hurts the same.

- when holding a weapon, some parries (sweep counter most noticeably) plunge the weapon through the enemy's torso/head/etc. but somehow don't cut. also the sword counter+disarm move swings the sword through the enemy's body with no noticeable ill effects

I think they do cut :) But they're not instant kills for gameplay balance. They do slightly more damage than a knife cut.

[diordna]

I'lll say it again: lite version please.

[NCarter]

Originally posted by erazorhead
oh also i made a level

Nice one, erazorhead! I like it!

It brings up some interesting bugs, too. I notice that you can grab onto the side of one of the blocks that make up a tower, but you actually end up floating some distance away from the wall. Also, you can actually run down the side of a tower to avoid a fatal impact with the ground by grabbing the wall, letting go, then pushing towards it on the way down.

let's see some others' maps! i can't be the only one who's played with the map editor..

I'd love to make some maps, but I find the editor pretty hard to use at the moment. Some suggestions for David, in order of difficulty:

Make the rotation, scaling and object selections keys change the last object created, not the next one. That'll make map building much less dependant on luck! It would also be useful to have keys to adjust the location of the object in three dimensions.

I'm sure you realise this already, but it would be very helpful if you could select the object you want to operate upon. If you don't want to implement picking, you could just automatically select the nearest object in front of the player in the direction the camera is facing.

Uh... after writing that I feel like I'm hassling you to do stuff for me! I hope you don't see it that way - these are just my thoughts. :?:

I'm going to have a go at map building anyway, and I'll post my creations here if I come up with something decent!

One last thing: I mentioned before that I had seen small black spots on the ground that I thought were blood splats with the wrong texture. I think they're actually the shadows of knives that have fallen on the ground. However, they don't go away when the knife is removed.

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by David
When making towers though it is probably best to alternate sizes from .95 to 1 or so to get rid of z-buffer fighting.

Or you could just allow for separate X, Y, and Z scaling in the editor to save us all the trouble of having to stack blocks in the first place. :p &nbsp; It might also be nice to have more precise scaling and rotation in the editor; perhaps rotation should be done in one-degree increments and scaling in .05-unit increments, or something like that, and holding down shift and pressing a key would rotate/scale one increment. Also, is there any particular reason that there's no base on the cubes? It would be nice to be able to build walkways, etc. out of cubes, but right now it looks a bit strange from below. And as long as I'm bothering you about the editor, it wouldn't be too hard to add an Undo function, would it? :)

Okay, now that I'm done with that... Sword-to-sword fighting seems a bit unbalanced right now; usually one rabbit (almost always the computer's) gets the sword knocked out of his hand and then is killed by the next blow. Some sort of blocking system would probably make sword combat more interesting.

[ERaZer]

I was surfin' around IGN.com(with a popup blocker, thank god) and noticed that Lugaru was mentioned on mac.ign.com!
Yay! It seems like this game is getting mentioned more and more, and thats great :)

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David
When making towers though it is probably best to alternate sizes from .95 to 1 or so to get rid of z-buffer fighting.
i always wondered what that was called. :p


btw you can only pick up loose weapons, not ones attached to belts or internal organs :p
i think you should be able to pick up weapons in any state while rolling (unless they're underneath a dead enemy) - it keeps the pace up when there are more enemies around.


This is a possibility. I kind of want to downplay jumping though, because despite it being a bunny game, I have a feeling the multiplayer games would turn into lots of bunny hopping rather than hand-to-hand duels.
ah, agreed. but this attack would only be useful if the other guy was already jumping - i don't think it would encourage people to hop around constantly. mostly i just want to be able to do something when i am in the air with an enemy, besides wait around for us to land.
(ps: give us a multiplayer beta and we'll just test it out ;) )


It SHOULD be challenging to take on a guy with a sword if you're unarmed.
i agree, and i do like how weapons give a real significant advantage (as they would in real life). but even after playing hours and hours every day, i still can't ever intentionally dodge sword attacks. it's like if there's a guy with a sword nearby, i just have to accept that i can spontaneously die at any instant.


(knife counter damage...) Depends on if you are countering the actual attack or taking advantage of follow-through :)
my 'feeling' is that a successful parry should always cancel damage. but this may be because i've played too many other games. i'm interested what other people think about it... in theory i like whether or not you take damage to depend on how early you catch their attack, but when playing it, it frustrates me to get cut to death when "i parried that #^%@ attack!"


I think they do cut :) But they're not instant kills for gameplay balance. They do slightly more damage than a knife cut.
oh i absolutely agree they shouldn't be instant kills -- i just recommend changing the animation so the sword or knife doesn't look like it's killing them


Originally posted by NCarter
Also, you can actually run down the side of a tower to avoid a fatal impact with the ground by grabbing the wall, letting go, then pushing towards it on the way down.
yeah, there's several ways to survive those long falls.
at first i tried to make it so that after you fell (if you lived), you could wall-jump between two buildings, back and forth, to get back to the start, but wall-jumping won't work like that. then i considered a long stairway, but stairways are annoying when you have to jump up them. i say, when you fall, just accept your fate. it's more fun that way.

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by erazorhead
i just have to accept that i can spontaneously die at any instant.

How are you playing?

I occasionally get caught unmanueverable between a rock and a hard place on level three, but I very seldom die to a sword any more. They won't kick you when you're down ;)

Backflip away to a safe distance, rabbit-kick towards them. Land flat, backflip away from the sword swipe, rinse, repeat.

Once you manage to hit them, continuing to hit them is very easy, or if you knock the sword out of their hands, you may be able to pick it up before they do, particularly if you do a rolling grab.

[Parsap]

Once David implements demo recording/playback, I can't wait to show you guys how much I own this game. :) Swords are nothing.

[erazorhead]

oh yes. i'm really waiting for the built-in timer, so i can show off how fast i can beat all the levels :)

i'll see you on the first MP lugaru server, parsap... i'll be waiting :sneaky:

[Mazilurik]

Is there a limit to the number of waypoints that you can put on a map? I'm working on placing enemies on a custom map, but if I add a few more waypoints for my current rabbit, the game refuses to load my map; a backup I made before I started working on this rabbit's path loads fine, but if I add a few more waypoints to the backup the game refuses to load it. (Before you ask: Yes, I am using a ridiculous number of waypoints for each rabbit; going over the rabbit's path a few times and having it turn at different times makes sneaking up on the rabbits much harder.)

I think someone else said a while back that stealth is too easy, and I agree; I can usually kill about two-thirds of the enemies in the game just by sneaking up behind them and using the instant-death sneak attack move. I'm not sure how to balance this, though, without making stealth too weak; maybe the enemies should look over their shoulders if they hear you running or falling behind them, which would force the player to crouch when he gets close to an enemy.

It's also a bit too easy to kill an enemy just by knocking him down, standing behind him, and holding the mouse button; he can't counter your attacks, and you hit him before he has time to dodge or attack you. I'm not quite sure how to fix this, either, but some way to dodge while you're getting up might help.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by Mazilurik
maybe the enemies should look over their shoulders if they hear you running or falling behind them, which would force the player to crouch when he gets close to an enemy.
enemies walk faster than you creep. you would never be able to catch up to them

also, i've ruined a couple maps and i'm not sure how i did it. i just make incremental backups - i'm on #5 of the map i'm working on now.

[erazorhead]

new map. it doesn't really have a 'gimmick' (like the towers map) but i think it is pretty good

lugauru map - compound (http://www.rroland.net/misc/compound.sit)

[OneSadCookie]

In the interests of, uh... well I was bored!

I've renamed this thread from the very unhelpful "Test Thingy" to "Lugaru Testing", just so y'all aren't confused.

[arekkusu]

Wow, this has really improved since I last looked at it. Keep it up!

However, it still doesn't sync to VBL. = instant tearing headache. Please add the two lines of code to sync the GL context.

[NCarter]

Originally posted by arekkusu
Please add the two lines of code to sync the GL context.

...but please make it optional. I've never seen significant tearing on my machine, and there's a speed penalty for VBL syncing.

Speaking of VBL, would it be possible to add the ability to select the refresh rate? I always end up in 60Hz mode, which is a bit flickery for my liking.

[geezusfreeek]

I've been following this game for a while, but not providing much input as most everybody else has been saying the same stuff I would have been. Just wanted to mention that this game has always reminded me of Red Wall. Has anybody read any of that book series? It would be so great to hear one of the rabbits yelling "Red Waaaaaall!!!" as they charge after you or something. ;)

[diordna]

That could be one of the multiplayer taunts.

[NCarter]

Originally posted by macboy
Two bugs:
1. You can't give enemies weapons anymore in the editor! Either that or you changed the key.
2. I finally got screenshots of my 2nd person camera view bug

1. Don't you just press Shift-X to give weapons to the enemy?
2. The camera stops moving when you press C. I think it's a feature. Press C again to switch back to normal.

Even though it doesn't work ;) it already is optional. Read the config.txt file :p

Eh? I can't see it! What are you referring to?

[macboy]

:blush: I was all disoriented I guess. Message removed.

[macboy]

Did you purposely make the loading screen instant when you die? Or is it a bug that just happens sometimes? ;)

Also, sometimes you still can't pick up a knife that's laying on the ground, not attached to anything.

erazorhead: I just tried both your new levels. Great job :wow:
David: You should definitely include some of erazorhead's levels (and other people's if they're good) in the game. Aside from it being nice ;) it would give a nice change in the action because they're not all by the same guy (if they were, original ideas would keep getting harder and harder to come by)

[erazorhead]

aw, i'm glad you think they're that good! i think there's going to be a substantial difference in the game by the time it finishes -- different objects, etc. -- so that these levels wouldn't really fit. however, i would of course be glad to contribute level design to the final game.

the loading screen pops up a few seconds after you die, unless you click the mouse (or maybe it's spacebar in the very newest version), which means if you're clicking away when you die, it happens instantly. it always does for me.

also, i hadn't realized how to give enemies weapons! that's why nobody is armed in any of my levels.

any updates, david?

[macboy]

Yeah shift-x gives the latest rabbit a knife (or a sword if he has a knife)

But (bug) when you delete a rabbit with a weapon, his weapon hangs in midair and there's no way to get rid of it. Try it.

Also, could you have an option to turn ambient lighting off in config.txt? It doesn't look too good to me and gives about 5 fps performance hit.

[Mazilurik]

Shift-X gives the nearest rabbit a knife; a lot of the time this will be the last rabbit you've placed, but you can also go back and give weapons to rabbits you've placed before, or give weapons to rabbits while you're playing the game if you think it's too easy. :) (The floating-weapon bug goes away if you save and reload the map, so it's really nothing more than a cosmetic issue.)

[macboy]

David? Where's the updates and replies? ;)

[morgant]

I'm assuming that since his birthday was two days ago that he's been taking a well-deserved break :D

[macboy]

Originally posted by morgant
I'm assuming that since his birthday was two days ago that he's been taking a well-deserved break :D Oh :D Happy Late Birthday. I don't pay attention to those little details :blush:

[reubert]

hmmm well I've just spent today reading most of the 680 odd posts. I'll probably be spending the next few weeks/months playing it too.

Wonderful game. I'm not really into FPS's and such (even halo) but lugaru(ok its not really a FPS) is both addictive and very fun to play. Love the originality.

Must say, I was a bit disappointed that you can no longer build towers out of cubes and climb up and jump off. When I read about it in the first few posts I got all excited! Guess I'm wierd. Might have to make my own tower builder suicide game.

congrats, cant wait till its finished.

[Parsap]

You should still be able to build uber towers. I've made some giant rock bridges and such with the latest build.

[reubert]

oops, you're right :blush:
just had to get the map editer figured out

[disc]

Hey, I'm absolutely new here. Just registered and only found this place through BlackShades. I was cruising the forums about a week ago and found Lugaru and I can only say that it's absolutely amazing. It's more addicting than crack and is seriously almost up to oni level already in my book. I just had about four friends over at my house, all of the PC users, and they all got completely addicted too. It's pretty impressive to have four people clustered around the computer taking turns playing the 6 or 7 levels that exist over... and over... and over again. Very nice work.

That said, here's some suggestions. I haven't read the entire thread yet, so forgive me if some of these have been repeated.

~The ability to either drop weapons or carry more than one. For example, if I throw my knife at a sword carrying rabbit, he'll die, but I have to pick up his sword and cannot drop it without being knocked over or having it stolen from me. A problem if I wanna keep throwing my knife at people :cool:

~Kick-punching bodies at people is perhaps *too* powerful. As it is, a solid shot is a one hit kill. A friend of mine beat the level "the compound" by killing only one rabbit hand to hand, then luring everyother bunny in the area and punching the bodies at them. Vicious....

~Perhaps a key to simply turn over the body? The kick-punch is a handy method for getting your knife back if it's lodged in the wrong side... but it knocks them awfully far and sometimes is sorta innacurate. Maybe some sort of "action key"

~The ability to pick up bodies would be incredibly sweet, ala Metal Gear Solid. Y'see as is you *can* hide dead bodies from guards by kick-punching them, but as I said above, it's pretty innacurate and takes a while. Perhaps if while you were carrying the body, you couldn't fight or something... if you got discovered you'd have to ditch the corpse and start fighting.... then you'd have two bodies to get rid of.

~The AI sometimes freaks out, especailly in the 3rd party levels, "Towers" and "Compound" and in "Fort." What happens is, you either piss the rabbits off and they go to get help, or you lose them and they try to go back to their original positions. The problem is that they can't seem to judge correct height distances. So if there's a big cliff between them and their destination, they'll run off it and die, and if there's a big wall, they'll jump in front of it endlessly.

~One last thing (sorry for the length of this post...): Give us more! More characters (wolves were mentioned, but other "redwallish" things could be cool too, like badgers and other woodland creatures. It would be even more sweet if they each had different "styles" of kung-fu fightin'. The wolves for example, could fight sort of like the rabbits, but have more bite attacks perhaps, and the badgers could just be sort of big and burly and use lots of sort of slow attacks which knock you the heck down if they connect.

More weapons would also be very, very cool. There has been mention of a bow, a spear and a cudgel. All of these, if they each had their particular strengths would be nice. For example, a bow could maybe have 5 arrows or something, and you could pull the arrows out of the dead bodies/scenery, much like the knife. However, it would be great if it somehow slowed you down in hand to hand combat, making it a difficult choice. A spear could be awesome to attack from a distance (even longer hitting range than a sword...), but almost useless if they get right on top of you. A cudgel could really throw people around if you solidly connect with them, could stun and could leave minimal amounts of suspicious lookin' blood.

Anyhow, like I said, this is an absolutely amazing project. Thanks for making a public beta and thanks for reading my long and seemingly endless post of things that have probably all been mentioned already....

-disc
(oh... and I can't for the life of me figure out how to edit maps... is there a seperate program or is it integrated? I'm running under X rather than classic, so that might be the problem...)

[note: I just realize it was a hatchet rather than a cudgel that had been mentioned. oops.]

[disc]

Oh, and if you ever need any 2D art (for loading screens, menus, etc...) I'd be chomping at the bit to help. It's a pipe dream, I know;)

Anything to get a game like this closer to completion...
-disc

[disc]

And oooooonnnnneeeee last thing... I can't edit the config.txt file because I have to save it as .rtf

no es bueno...
-disc