CloneShooter updated

[macboy]

Yes, it still has that corny name. :D Here's a new, way updated version of CloneShooter for all those people waiting to criticize ;) Any questions? Just ask.

P.S. Shivers has new graphics for the store, but we don't have them implemented. Make sure not to mention that in comments :p

[edit]Look below for link.

[AJ Infinity]

The first version was good. Somebody said it was slow, butit didn't seem that way. I haven't downloaded thus update (3.4MB! Whoa I don't have time to download that.) but I still have the first version :D.

[macboy]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
The first version was good. Somebody said it was slow, butit didn't seem that way. I haven't downloaded thus update (3.4MB! Whoa I don't have time to download that.) but I still have the first version :D. If you liked the first version, you should try this one.

I don't think slowness is at all a problem now. Very low requirements. Optimal/Max FPS: 20 :D

[David]

Much much much better.

Anyways suggestions:
-bullet holes or ricochets or something when you miss
-maybe make levels start out with less people and have more people run on or jump out from behind crates or something, when you start with a screen of 30 people it's kinda tough
-make it so there's a ledge you can see at the bottom of the screen, and you can hold a button to duck down behind it. It seems like the view you have would only really make sense if you're on some kind of cliff of platform way above everyone, so it would make sense that you could duck down to avoid getting shot
-Make the readme into some kind of readable file :) like a simpletext document

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
Much much much better.Thanks. :)

Originally posted by David
-bullet holes or ricochets or something when you miss
-maybe make levels start out with less people and have more people run on or jump out from behind crates or something, when you start with a screen of 30 people it's kinda tough
-make it so there's a ledge you can see at the bottom of the screen, and you can hold a button to duck down behind it. It seems like the view you have would only really make sense if you're on some kind of cliff of platform way above everyone, so it would make sense that you could duck down to avoid getting shotGood ideas. I'll try them :cool:

Originally posted by David
-Make the readme into some kind of readable file :) like a simpletext documentYeah. That file is just a temporary note to everybody here. :D

[AJ Infinity]

Grrrrreat job, Macboy!!! Feels like a professional game. It's also fun and addictive. Send it in to macgamefiles.

[Shivers]

dont worry we will:D

[macboy]

New CloneShooter update to 1.0a14.

I added all the things David suggested, an alternate config for comps without numpads, a new help file, and some minor fixes.

[edit]Look below for links.

[David]

Wow, that was quick :D Very nice!

Now I can go suggestion-crazy :p

Gameplay:
-Maybe make the enemies hold still and aim for a half-second or so before firing
-Make them miss occasionally
-Make their hit areas a bit bigger so it's not as hard to aim
-Make an 'exit' button in the store so the player doesn't need to move their hand from the numpad position to 'escape'
-Make the bomb just blow up enemies within 200 pixels of the cursor or something
-Make the player recover a little health by shooting enemies
-Give accuracy/speed/etc. bonuses to health or score

Graphics:
-You could replace ledge.gif with one of your background images and make it go less high up the screen
-A flash around the cursor when you shoot would be good, and a bigger and brighter flash for the enemies gun when they shoot

Sounds:
-I uploaded some sounds from black shades that might be useful here (http://david.emuscene.com/cloneshootersoundsuggestio%26.sit)

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
1 Maybe make the enemies hold still and aim for a half-second or so before firing
2 Make them miss occasionally
3 Make their hit areas a bit bigger so it's not as hard to aim
4 Make an 'exit' button in the store so the player doesn't need to move their hand from the numpad position to 'escape'
5 Make the bomb just blow up enemies within 200 pixels of the cursor or something
6 Make the player recover a little health by shooting enemies
7 Give accuracy/speed/etc. bonuses to health or score
8 You could replace ledge.gif with one of your background images and make it go less high up the screen
9 A flash around the cursor when you shoot would be good, and a bigger and brighter flash for the enemies gun when they shoot

(numbers added for easy reference)1 I don't really know if I can do that, but I'll see :?:
2 They do
3 If any part of your cursor is touching them they die
4 OK
5 That would make it too hard and a waste of points I think
6 You get a little health at the end of each level, but I think that would help too :)
7 Ooo. Sounds good :wow:
8 Shivers is going to make a ledge image. If it doesn't go all the way up you could still see some enemies so it would seem like they could still hit you
9 I'll try the first, and I'll do the second :D

Nice suggestions. Thanks ;)

[David]

1 I don't really know if I can do that, but I'll see
2 They do
3 If any part of your cursor is touching them they die
4 OK
5 That would make it too hard and a waste of points I think
6 You get a little health at the end of each level, but I think that would help too
7 Ooo. Sounds good
8 Shivers is going to make a ledge image. If it doesn't go all the way up you could still see some enemies so it would seem like they could still hit you
9 I'll try the first, and I'll do the second

Ah neat :)

Oh yeah about sounds, I was thinking maybe the enemies and the player should have different sounds, and there could be a whoosh type sound for when a bullet goes by you, a glass sound for when you get hit and some kind of impact sound for when they shoot the ledge you're hiding behind.

I uploaded some suggestions for those at that link thingy.

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
Oh yeah about sounds, I was thinking maybe the enemies and the player should have different sounds, and there could be a whoosh type sound for when a bullet goes by you, a glass sound for when you get hit and some kind of impact sound for when they shoot the ledge you're hiding behind.

I uploaded some suggestions for those at that link thingy. The sounds are good, and I'll probably use some of them. I think some are too long though. :?:

[David]

Oh yeah also I think you should automatically reload when you duck behind the ledge.

[macboy]

'nother update. I added all the features I said I would plus some of David's sounds. Reason it took a while is because bonuses were screwing up :wacko:

Look below (again) for the links.

P.S. 3064 lines of code in BASIC!!! :wow:

[macboy]

Wow :wow: Two updates in one day. This one fixes a few bugs and adds two weapons: Handgun and Automatic. You automatically switch to the automatic (no pun intended) after level 2.

[EDIT]Look on next page for download link. Sorry for all the relocation notes ;)

[macboy]

Shivers and David both have suggested that the ledge only goes up halfway or so up the screen so you can sort of shoot your enemies without getting hit.

I'm thinking this won't work so well because if you can see them, they should be able to see/hit you.

What are all your thoughts?

[Shivers]

nah, i think it would be good if you could see your enemies while crouched, I said nothing about actually shooting them.

[macboy]

Originally posted by Shivers
nah, i think it would be good if you could see your enemies while crouched, I said nothing about actually shooting them. Well, still, at that height they should still be able to hit you. :?:

Any thoughts?

[David]

I thought it should go 3/4 of the way up just so you still have a sense of depth.

I think they should continue shooting at you but should hit the ledge instead, since all they can see is the top of your head :)

I don't think it would be necessary to make it so 1/20 of their shots hit you or something.

[macboy]

Since nobody else had any comments, the ledge now goes up only 3/4 of the screen. You can't shoot the enemies.

I'm not going to upload it right now, instead I'll wait for a more major update. :cool:

[Matt Brown]

I spent 5 bucks and half an hour playing Time Crises 2 (My favorite arcade game of ALL TIME!!!) at may local mall's arcade last night, and when hiding behind various ledges, sometimes you could see the enemies, and sometimes you couldn't, depending on where you. Maybe It could be different in some levels? Note I haven't PLAYED the new one, as I don't have internet on my Mac, and it won't fit a floppy, and there's no burner in my folks PC. But I would suggest putting a hole or crack in the ledge so that you could see the enemies a bit, while making it cover about 75%-85% of the screen. My 2 cents.

[macboy]

Originally posted by Matt Brown
Maybe It could be different in some levels?Not really. I use a random level generator for everything except custom levels (which i'm currently looking to make/get somebody to make an editor for)

Originally posted by Matt Brown
But I would suggest putting a hole or crack in the ledge so that you could see the enemies a bit, while making it cover about 75%-85% of the screen.Maybe, I'm thinking that wouldn't look so good.

[macboy]

Could somebody boot into OS 9 and try CloneShooter? I just tried it and Classic and I think I might've found problems. :(

P.S. Actually boot into OS 9. Don't run it under Classic.

[AJ Infinity]

I can't. Well, I can but it takes a long time for my Mac to start up in OS9 (I have many extensions plus the extensions for my behemoth HP all in one printer/scanner/fax/copy machine)

[Matt Brown]

Originally posted by macboy
Not really. I use a random level generator for everything except custom levels (which i'm currently looking to make/get somebody to make an editor for)

Maybe, I'm thinking that wouldn't look so good.

I see.

[macboy]

Major update here. Added everything I said I would (which isn't much) and a bunch of other stuff. The store graphic isn't *completely* done yet. The store item GFX will be coming soon. :)

Download It (3.7 MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooter10.sit)

NOTE: No update this time due to major changes in the Data folder and other things. Make sure to delete your old version.

Originally posted by Matt Brown
I see.Hey, I didn't mean it in an offensive way. :?:

[Shivers]

up until 2 days ago i still used mainly os 9 and it worked fine for the most part :p
i dont remember any big errors

[macboy]

Which option do you think would be better for this game (unbiased descriptions only, for example, don't do this: freeware because i don't want to pay ;) )

- Freeware
- Shareware $5 (or another price, just make sure to mention it :D )
- Donationware

[David]

Very cool :)

I like the 75% thing a lot better, makes it feel much more 3d.

I think the wall needs some type of texture though, and to make it really fancy, you could blur it a bit and it would look like you have depth-of-field.

Store and main menu screens look nice.

Maybe in the help screen it would be good to have hyphens for the words that wrap around.

The readme seems to be an alias to a file that doesn't exist, maybe you should just have a standard simpletext file.

When you get a bonus the sprite should be more informative, instead of "bonus" it should say what you got the bonus for, and how many points you got. Like "Accuracy Bonus! +100" or something. Also when you shoot a hostage it should say "-100" or however many points you lose

My suggestions would be:

No hostages killed +500
No misses +1000
Two hits in a row +50

This way a better player could end up with a very high score.

You need some kind of goals to reach after getting the machinegun to keep people interested, like maybe:

level 7- access to flashbang (freezes everyone for 5 seconds)

level 10- clip size increases by two, more powerful-sounding gun

level 13 - access to bulletproof-vest item, doubles life capacity for a round

level 16 - access to glass riot shield, basically ledge image turns into a glass riot shield image, so you can see what the enemies are doing but not get hit.

level 19 - you get a gatling gun

level 22 - you win

Or something like that.

I would go with either shareware or donationware, with donationware more people will play your full game, but shareware would get more money.

[David]

Oh yeah and I think the hit detection is still a bit too unforgiving, i.e. I missed this (http://david.emuscene.com/CSmiss.jpg) shot.

[David]

Very cool :)

I like the 75% thing a lot better, makes it feel much more 3d.

I think the wall needs some type of texture though, and to make it really fancy, you could blur it a bit and it would look like you have depth-of-field.

Store and main menu screens look nice.

Maybe in the help screen it would be good to have hyphens for the words that wrap around.

The readme seems to be an alias to a file that doesn't exist, maybe you should just have a standard simpletext file.

When you get a bonus the sprite should be more informative, instead of "bonus" it should say what you got the bonus for, and how many points you got. Like "Accuracy Bonus! +100" or something

You need some kind of goals to reach after getting the machinegun to keep people interested, like maybe:

level 7- access to flashbang (freezes everyone for 5 seconds)

level 10- clip size increases by two, more powerful-sounding gun

level 13 - access to bulletproof-vest item, doubles life capacity for a round

level 16 - access to glass riot shield, basically ledge image turns into a glass riot shield image, so you can see what the enemies are doing but not get hit.

level 19 - you get a gatling gun

level 22 - you win

Or something like that.

I would go with either shareware or donationware, with donationware more people will play your full game, but shareware would get more money.

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
I think the wall needs some type of texture though, and to make it really fancy, you could blur it a bit and it would look like you have depth-of-field.Don't worry. I just made that in GraphicConverter really quickly. Shivers will probably make a new one.

Originally posted by David
Maybe in the help screen it would be good to have hyphens for the words that wrap around.I was thinking about that, I think there might be a way to make it so only before a space or after one it wraps around (you know what I mean ;)

Originally posted by David
The readme seems to be an alias to a file that doesn't exist, maybe you should just have a standard simpletext file.It was supposed to go to the quick_help file in Data folder. Guess it doesn't work too well on other computers :D

Originally posted by David
When you get a bonus the sprite should be more informative, instead of "bonus" it should say what you got the bonus for, and how many points you got. Like "Accuracy Bonus! +100" or something. Also when you shoot a hostage it should say "-100" or however many points you lose

My suggestions would be:

No hostages killed +500
No misses +1000
Two hits in a row +50

This way a better player could end up with a very high score.The sprite idea I can't really do because it's a graphic file (that uses a font most computers don't have) and I might be changing the point values and/or what bonuses you can get.

BTW, I can get a high score of over 100,000 :cool: :p

Originally posted by David
You need some kind of goals to reach after getting the machinegun to keep people interested, like maybe:

level 7- access to flashbang (freezes everyone for 5 seconds)

level 10- clip size increases by two, more powerful-sounding gun

level 13 - access to bulletproof-vest item, doubles life capacity for a round

level 16 - access to glass riot shield, basically ledge image turns into a glass riot shield image, so you can see what the enemies are doing but not get hit.

level 19 - you get a gatling gun

level 22 - you win7 - Kinda hard because I'll need a bunch of new GFX I'm thinking
10 - I can do the clip size one but I'm not sure about the sound
13 - Don't really think so. :(
16 - I could probably do that, I'll see.
19 - No new weapons please :D
22 - All the levels are randomly generated so basically you play until you lose or quit. :)

Originally posted by David
Oh yeah and I think the hit detection is still a bit too unforgiving, i.e. I missed this (http://david.emuscene.com/CSmiss.jpg) shot. That was probably because the enemy moved right before you shot. :?:

[macboy]

New update. Fixes:

- Quick Help wrapping fixed
- You get more ammo on level 8
- Glass shield added on level 10
- Some minor things I forgot :D

Here's the full d/l:
Download It (3.7 MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooter10.sit)

If you have 1.0a17 (the one posted on previous page) then you can download this update (~137 KB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterupdate.sit).

Originally posted by David
I would go with either shareware or donationware, with donationware more people will play your full game, but shareware would get more money.I think donationware will be better now because I hate games that they charge for more than it's worth :?:

[Najdorf]

Nice game; Anyway, I' d put a limit to the shield abuse (I did 154000 by waiting for the baddies to come up then releasing the shield for a second, hitting them then shields up again.)

To avoid this you could:

-Put a time limit to the shield;
-You can' t aim while shielding;
-They hit you also with the shields up, but less probably
-You have a time limit to complete the level
-Something else (wow)

I like the last option.
Good job anyway :-) (this is a true smilie!)

[David]

I think time limit or giving the shield limited damage per level before shattering would be good.

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
I think time limit or giving the shield limited damage per level before shattering would be good. Maybe limited damage... but doesn't that kind of destroy the point because the ledge can't be destroyed. :wacko:

In any case, I can't try anything until Sunday or Monday afternoon as I am in Chicago and currently using a Windoze computer.

[Shivers]

alrght, i was actually planning on making the ledge a crate...so this can blow up...if you want

[macboy]

Originally posted by Shivers
alrght, i was actually planning on making the ledge a crate...so this can blow up...if you want OK. Cool :cool:

[David]

I was thinking that after your shield breaks, you could use the ledge. :)

[Najdorf]

time limit rules :)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Najdorf
time limit rules :) I'm thinking if I did that the player could just put it back up again after it goes down.

If you're talking about having a time limit for the whole level I don't think that would work because I've had about 25 enemies on screen and trying to fight them without your ledge is very difficult.

[Najdorf]

hmm, I was talking about a time limit for the level; You can use the ledge, as long as you finish it in time. Anyway, I understand this is difficult to balance. The shield shattering is a very good idea.

[macboy]

Should I have it so you can switch to the ledge from the riot shield if you want or would that be unneccesary?

[AJ Infinity]

Get Shivers to make Cinema 4D movies that show the player going between areas. eg, a camera flys from the store to the warehouse.

[macboy]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
Get Shivers to make Cinema 4D movies that show the player going between areas. eg, a camera flys from the store to the warehouse. That'd be pretty hard as the levels are randomly generated therefore you won't know which level is coming up and I don't really think even short movies would fit in because this is more a fast-paced game.

But if he wants to he can...

[Shivers]

::cough::huge download size::cough::

[macboy]

OK, here's another question I'd like feedback on: should we have some kind of force feedback (recoil) from the gun? Like the cursor could move down 5 pixels every shot? It might be difficult to program, but if it helps make the game better, that's cool with me.

[David]

That would be interesting, but I think it would make more sense for the cursor to move up.

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
That would be interesting, but I think it would make more sense for the cursor to move up. Really? Oh hehe I guess so... but would it be cool instead of interesting? (interesting sounds like you don't like it but don't want to say that, e.g. that food is "interesting" ;) )

[David]

I think maybe it should just move in a semi-random direction when you shoot, like in Black Shades :)

[macboy]

I'm home!!! Back from Chicago (and back to work :D )! Here's the version with a breakable shield. I tried to do recoil but there's a bunch of problems with it. :( Anyways:

If you don't have 1.0a17 or 1.0a18,
Download This One (3.8MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooter10.sit)

If you have one of the ones mentioned above,
Download This Update (211KB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterupdate.sit)

Shivers: Can you make a darker muzzle flash? I think the current one is too bright. :?:

[macboy]

Jake thought it was too easy, so here's another update.

- Made it more difficult
- You now get the glass shield on level 10 instead of 1 (I left it there for testing purposes :blush: )
- Added the keys for using flashbangs in the help file

Full Download (3.8 MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooter10.sit)

Update Download (211 KB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterupdate.sit)

[Jake]

Do you have the difficulty change each level? Instead of just having new levels increase the amount of enemys you could make the bonus lose 5% of its value

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
Do you have the difficulty change each level? Instead of just having new levels increase the amount of enemys you could make the bonus lose 5% of its value After each level:

- There's (usually) more enemies
- New enemies/hostages appear more often
- The enemies/hostages move faster
- The enemies shoot more often
- The enemies/hostages move more often

[Jake]

Originally posted by macboy
OK, here's another question I'd like feedback on: should we have some kind of force feedback (recoil) from the gun? Like the cursor could move down 5 pixels every shot? It might be difficult to program, but if it helps make the game better, that's cool with me.

Ok here is what i was talking about on ichat.

say you have 2 vars for the crosshair, x and y. You now need 2 variables called recoilx and recoily. Here is some code that moves the cursor when you shoot. it should be realistic (especialy if you are using the automatic mode)


if lastshot <= 2 then recoil = 12
if lastshot > 2 and lastshot <= 4 then recoil = 8
if lastshot > 4 then recoil = 5

'player shoots
recoilx = recoilx + (rnd-.5)*(recoil)
recoilx = recoilx + (rnd-.5)*(recoil)


Now each frame you can add an auto-correct (because in real life you will naturally go back to where you are aiming at)


if recoilx or recoily <> 0 then
x = x - (recoilx/10)
recoilx = recoilx - recoilx/10
if recoilx > -.1 and < .1 then recoilx = 0 'This is because it will never actually equal 0, it will just get close
end if
'do the same for the y


That should correct the recoil like a person would (fast at first and then it slows down).

[macboy]

Thanks to Jake I've got awesome recoil working! :wow: Thanks Jake! :)

If you have version 1.0a17 or later,
Download This Update (211 KB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterupdate.sit)

If you don't have version 1.0a17 or later,
Download CloneShooter 1.0a21 (3.8 MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooter10.sit)

BTW, Anybody who has a suggestion that gets included or gives help with the game will get their name in the credits in a documentation file. :)

[Jake]

Looks Great!:D

[macboy]

If there's anything that you'd like to see, ask now because this is probably going to be the last version before public release.

[Shivers]

do people think that this is good enough to be released as a $5 shareware game?

[David]

One way to find out :)

[macboy]

Give us your complete opinion. If you truly don't think so, say that. If you do, say that.

[Matt Brown]

Well, I haven't played it, but five bucks is eight bucks :blink:. You know what I mean.;)
Seriously, five bucks is only five bucks, but with a random level generator and apparently no limitations I don't think you'll get a whole lot of registrations. Unless you have REALLY annoying shareware messages. And I don't mean wimpy ones like in Escape and Zador,(the escape one's were actually kinda cool) I mean REALLY annoying ones.

[macboy]

Originally posted by Matt Brown
Well, I haven't played it, but five bucks is eight bucks :blink:. You know what I mean.;)
Seriously, five bucks is only five bucks, but with a random level generator and apparently no limitations I don't think you'll get a whole lot of registrations. Unless you have REALLY annoying shareware messages. And I don't mean wimpy ones like in Escape and Zador,(the escape one's were actually kinda cool) I mean REALLY annoying ones. Maybe you should play it ;)

[macboy]

I thought of a workaround to make how many points you score show when you get a bonus. Plus it shows it now any time you get points or lose points. I also changed the level you get an automatic from 1 to 4 (I left it on 1 to test recoil :blush: )

Full download: http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooter10.sit (3.8MB)

Update (1.0a17 or later): http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterupdate.sit (211KB)

[macboy]

Oh, a note to David, Najdorf, and Jake:

If you want your name on the credits screen (after pressing Quit) besides the iDG username you have, tell me. Also tell me if you want your website OR an email address.

Thanks. :)

[Najdorf]

Oh, what an honour :) ! Only Najdorf is OK :cool: , I would not want to get too much merits I don' t deserve:D

PS:I' m working on Radical Rebound 2, you' re gonna see it in a while:wow:

[Matt Brown]

Originally posted by macboy
Maybe you should play it ;)

I'd love to play it. I really would. But I'm in the unfortunate situation that the only internet-able computer I have access to is a PC :(, and I'm having trouble with networking. And neither the PC of my Mac have burners, so I'm limited to the 1.3 megs I can carry on a floppy :(. My parents ARE getting a Mac...I hope.

[Jake]

Put me as Jake Leveto (http://nuclearnova.com) please. Thanks :)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
Put me as Jake Leveto (http://nuclearnova.com) please. Thanks :) Sure, what about you David?

[David]

David Rosen would be great :cool:

[macboy]

Is that everything? All ideas must be final because it's going to be released on April 1st (next Tuesday by my time).

[macboy]

You won't be able to download CloneShooter or the update until I upload 1.0b1 because of a stupid mistake I made. :blush: Don't worry, it'll be uploaded soon though :)

[macboy]

We've decided on making it shareware for 5 dollars (or if they want to pay more, they can ;) ). Currently, the shareware limitations are:

- Nag screen at startup (10 seconds)
- Nag screen every time you begin a level or play the practice level (10 seconds)
- Nag screen at quit (10 seconds)
- Can't play past level 6
- Skips the store
- Can only have the game open for 5 minutes at a time
- No ability to play custom levels

Please tell me if you think this is overkill. :zzz:

[macboy]

Here's the unregistered version of the first beta of CloneShooter. To get the registered one, you have to register ;) 'Tis a full download so you don't need any other files.

Download (5.2 MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterbeta.sit)

P.S. The nag screens were made entirely by me so excuse me if they look kinda crappy :D

P.S.S. No music in this one :(

JD: Sorry to rush you but I'd really like the level editor by tomorrow, or else it will have to be a separate download. :?:

[Najdorf]

Please tell me if you think this is overkill.

Mpf! It is. I don' t think I' ll ever play a game with half those limitations, even if it was the best in the world.
Try the shareware thing, OK, why not try it?, but really I think you gotta leave it playable. As I told you, I won' t play a game with all those limitations and nags for 1 minute, and I think others wont. Try something soft and, really, kill the nag screens (10 seconds! oh my!). I would leave only a level limit (and higher than 6; say 20?).
It' s a nice game, don' t make it terrible;) .

[akisha]

When I try to run your game, the loading screen will come up, then the register nag screen, then I get an error message saying:

"Execution error:
? Invalid movie reference passed."

I'm running OS 9.2.2.

[macboy]

Originally posted by Najdorf
Mpf! It is. I don' t think I' ll ever play a game with half those limitations, even if it was the best in the world.
Try the shareware thing, OK, why not try it?, but really I think you gotta leave it playable. As I told you, I won' t play a game with all those limitations and nags for 1 minute, and I think others wont. Try something soft and, really, kill the nag screens (10 seconds! oh my!). I would leave only a level limit (and higher than 6; say 20?).
It' s a nice game, don' t make it terrible;) . Then people will be content with the demo and not have any envy of the full version. :?:

[macboy]

Originally posted by akisha
When I try to run your game, the loading screen will come up, then the register nag screen, then I get an error message saying:

"Execution error:
? Invalid movie reference passed."

I'm running OS 9.2.2. I just uploaded it again and I'm pretty sure I fixed that. You'll have to download the whole thing again though because I'm too busy to make an update file :(

[Najdorf]

Then people will be content with the demo and not have any envy of the full version.

OK, maybe the best thing would be something as "you can play 30 times only before you register" without other limitations. That way you can show how good it is and get maybe people to pay.

[David]

Yeah I right now it's too much, you don't want to piss off the player.

Of your list right now:
- Nag screen at startup (10 seconds)
- Nag screen every time you begin a level or play the practice level (10 seconds)
- Nag screen at quit (10 seconds)
- Can't play past level 6
- Skips the store
- Can only have the game open for 5 minutes at a time
- No ability to play custom levels

It would probably be best to just have
- Can't play past level 6
- Nag screen at quit (5 seconds)
- Can't play past level 6
- Skips the store
- No ability to play custom levels

Also the register button seems to make the program quit.

The ledge texture is neat :)

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
It would probably be best to just have
- Can't play past level 6
- Nag screen at quit (5 seconds)
- Can't play past level 6
- Skips the store
- No ability to play custom levelsI'll probably do all those plus a 5 minute time limit. That should be good.

Originally posted by David
Also the register button seems to make the program quit.I know. I started that and forgot to finish it. I've removed it in this next one.

Originally posted by David
The ledge texture is neat :) Kudos to Shivers for that. :)

[macboy]

Beta 2! All the graphics we need are at least minimally done and gameplay is pretty much finalized. I changed the nags to what David suggested, with a 5 minute limit on keeping the game open and a 10 second delay with the nag screen upon quitting.

Download It (7.7 MB) (http://www.silvernetwork.net/~quiksw/downloads/cloneshooterbeta.sit)

Tell me what you think!

P.S. Music is included in this download. Be aware that this may not be the final music in the game due to the fact that when I emailed the author about including it in CloneShooter, he hasn't responded yet (it was Saturday CST). I've have, however, asked Kemal to make some new music since he probably won't be responding anytime soon.

[erazorhead]

Originally posted by David

....
It would probably be best to just have
- Can't play past level 6
- Nag screen at quit (5 seconds)
- Can't play past level 6
....

hee hee

[macboy]

We're gonna need about 6 official beta testers to thoroughly test each part of the game. If you beta test, you'll get a free registration and your name on the credits. :) Anybody want to do it?

Current List (will be changed as people sign up):
Jake
David
Dr. Light

[Dr. Light]

Gimme.:)

dr_light@beau.lib.la.us

[macboy]

Oh, and it'd help to know all the beta testers' email addresses ;) I'm going to be sending links to the latest versions through email.

Also, the guy who made the music responded saying I could use it in CloneShooter :)

[macboy]

I sent an email to all the beta testers. Anybody else want to test?

You get a free registration ;) :D

[macboy]

David pointed out that it plays the glass breaking sound when your shield has broken and you're getting hit with the ledge up :blush:

[Dr. Light]

Here is an initial analysis (by the way, your spamgaurd blocked my email to you):


Ok, first off, its got a little bit of gore. Second, yes I do have a problem with that. ;) Make them fall or sort of "jump" back and fizzle away or something. Family friendly=larger audience

When you go to duck, the bad guys should move down a bit, depending on how high they are on the screen, as if the perspective were changing

Game gaphics have some black edging to them

Explosion graphics are too quick. Pace them a bit more.

I'll eventually develop a repetitive stress injury from using the mouse. You need to at least have the option of using the keyboard.

Needs command-q to quit quickly. Use "keymap bit()"

For selection of custom levels, you should use the "open dialog$" command

Badly needs an options screen

Make the bad guys move slower. I've learned this the hard way: too hard=no fun. Making it more challenging to compensate for lack of fun actually makes it less fun. Look for gameplay in a game, because challenge is easy to implement. Challenge can be an integral part of advanced levels though.

Make the bad guys hide behind things, so that you can shoot them when they bob their heads up.

"Mouse overs" for buttons would look nice. You can use copyrect with the mode set to 12 to get a nice "negative" look.

Pretty slick looking for an initial release. Keep up the good work.-Dr. Light

[Najdorf]

Oh, that WAS mean!!
I guess I would have killed somebody who said this stuff to one of my games:sneaky:

[Dr. Light]

What do you mean by "mean"? I simply addressed various technical and gameplay issues, and did so without hatred, contemp or bias. Its how I, as a beta tester, see the game. That is one of the points of beta testing.

Oh yeah, and macboy instructed the beta testers to post our stuff here anyways.

[Najdorf]

only joking ;)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Ok, first off, its got a little bit of gore. Second, yes I do have a problem with that. ;) Make them fall or sort of "jump" back and fizzle away or something. Family friendly=larger audienceIt's not that bad... besides, new graphics would take too long at this stage.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
When you go to duck, the bad guys should move down a bit, depending on how high they are on the screen, as if the perspective were changingFirst of all, it would make more sense that they go up. Second, this engine is not anywhere near 3D. Third, you're just ducking behind something, while they're far away, so actually they would only move a tiny bit to your eyes.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Game gaphics have some black edging to themCould you tell me which ones in specific? When I play I don't see that... are you in OS 9?

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Explosion graphics are too quick. Pace them a bit more.I can do that... I think :sorry:

Originally posted by Dr. Light
I'll eventually develop a repetitive stress injury from using the mouse. You need to at least have the option of using the keyboard.I'll probably have an option for that in the options screen you mentioned.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Needs command-q to quit quickly. Use "keymap bit()"I didn't do that originally for in-game because that keystroke might be pressed accidentally. But now it seems more logical.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
For selection of custom levels, you should use the "open dialog$" commandThe only problem I have with that is that it uses fullscreen mode. I would have to exit fullscreen mode, open up the dialog and let them select it, then bring it back up. Tell me if you still think that would be OK.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Badly needs an options screenSure does. ;)

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Make the bad guys move slower. I've learned this the hard way: too hard=no fun. Making it more challenging to compensate for lack of fun actually makes it less fun. Look for gameplay in a game, because challenge is easy to implement. Challenge can be an integral part of advanced levels though.They start moving slow, then they speed up as new levels come. Seems natural because they've seen you kill other enemies so they'd be doing anything to get away :sneaky:

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Make the bad guys hide behind things, so that you can shoot them when they bob their heads up.I think I posted earlier about not doing this because of the problems in programming that would arise. They will go behind crates and barrels and other stuff though.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
"Mouse overs" for buttons would look nice. You can use copyrect with the mode set to 12 to get a nice "negative" look.Cool. Thanks.

Thanks for your feedback. :)
Sorry for my criticism. :blush:

[Jake]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
What do you mean by "mean"? I simply addressed various technical and gameplay issues, and did so without hatred, contemp or bias. Its how I, as a beta tester, see the game. That is one of the points of beta testing.

Oh yeah, and macboy instructed the beta testers to post our stuff here anyways.

I agree, Kemal was very harsh helping me with my game, and it helped in the long run.

Those are not insults, they are just suggestions

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
I agree, Kemal was very harsh helping me with my game, and it helped in the long run.

Those are not insults, they are just suggestions Hehe I posted right before you. :D

[w_reade]

Dr. Light, do you know what guns do? Since you apparently don't, let me explain.

They use an explosion in a confined space to accelerate a small piece of metal (which we call a "bullet") to very high speeds. These "bullets" fly through the air, until they hit a person. When they hit a person, they make a hole in the person's skin, through which blood escapes. Sometimes they go straight through the person, pulling bits of the person (including some of their blood) out with them. Sometimes this kills the person immediately, sometimes it kills them later after great suffering, sometimes the person survives (in pain). Whatever, shooting people makes them bleed.

Now, I don't have a problem with games with violence, and apparently neither do you (you're beta-testing CloneShooter, after all).

I do have a problem with any game, book, film or human being who implicitly advances the cretinous and morally indefensible idea that shooting people just makes them fall over and disappear.

If you want a game to be "family friendly", cut the violence out. If you want a game to be ridiculous and intellectually dishonest, keep the violence but take out the blood.

Do I need to explain further?

[Patrick]

that's silly. No one thinks that getting shot actually makes someone fall over, then fade away to heaven or whatever, and no amount of games will change that. There's no need to make a game have lifelike violence ... after all REAL violence isn't fun. ( nor should it be!) :bored:

[w_reade]

But saying "take the blood out, that makes it ok to shoot people" is even sillier.

[David]

Kids often don't know that shooting people makes them die.
Hence all the accidental shootings by little kids every year.
A blood option, however, would be ok but would be kinda difficult in a sprite-based game.

I agree with Dr. Light though that it would be very nice if the background could move up a bit when you crouch behind a ledge. (maybe two pixels per frame while ducking behind it or something).

[Shivers]

Macboy, making the enemies fade out if the blood option is switched shouldn't be tough.

[Shivers]

David, i agree that violence without blood is pretty stupid, but i think that it is for parents to decide for their kids, not us. Although, I don't agree with turning off the blood (it will be an option) I don't agree with abortion necessarily, but I still think that the woman should be able to choose (if you get the analogy)

[Dr. Light]

Allright, leave the blood if you must, but do some kinda cool fade-away thing. Its arcade here, not "Saving Private Ryan".:D



w_read, please don't be such a smart*ss, I am fully aware of how a gun works and have several antique and hunting guns. However, I am sure we are all aquainted with the good old NES days, and remember the low-gore way people got shot. It's just my preference(worthy of mention, since I am in fact a beta tester), and I didn't mean to start a moral dilema here!


Sorry Najdorf, its hard to tell sometimes, being that its a forum and all.:)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Allright, leave the blood if you must, but do some kinda cool fade-away thing. Its arcade here, not "Saving Private Ryan".:DWe're going to have an option for blood or no blood. If there's no blood they'll rotate once then disappear. :)

[Jake]

Rotate once than dissipear... why not just fade away and rise up?

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
Rotate once than dissipear... why not just fade away and rise up? Because I'm doing the graphics for this and don't have Photoshop and don't want it to look religious ;)

[macboy]

I sent everybody the link to the newest version, 1.0b5.

[Najdorf]

Originally posted by macboy
Because I'm doing the graphics for this and don't have Photoshop and don't want it to look religious ;)

nice one:sneaky:

[w_reade]

Dr. Light - I'm sorry for being a smartarse. It was vindictive and unnecessary; I make no excuses. Nonetheless, I stand by everything else I said.

If you own guns but prefer not to face up to what they do... well, that's your problem. I sincerely hope it never becomes anyone else's.

[Najdorf]

Originally posted by w_reade
Dr. Light, do you know what guns do? Since you apparently don't, let me explain.

They use an explosion in a confined space to accelerate a small piece of metal (which we call a "bullet") to very high speeds. These "bullets" fly through the air, until they hit a person. When they hit a person, they make a hole in the person's skin, through which blood escapes. Sometimes they go straight through the person, pulling bits of the person (including some of their blood) out with them. Sometimes this kills the person immediately, sometimes it kills them later after great suffering, sometimes the person survives (in pain). Whatever, shooting people makes them bleed.

Now, I don't have a problem with games with violence, and apparently neither do you (you're beta-testing CloneShooter, after all).

I do have a problem with any game, book, film or human being who implicitly advances the cretinous and morally indefensible idea that shooting people just makes them fall over and disappear.

If you want a game to be "family friendly", cut the violence out. If you want a game to be ridiculous and intellectually dishonest, keep the violence but take out the blood.

Do I need to explain further?

Ok, then why did you put "no blood" option in your game MAFFia;) ?

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! WHAT A SCOOP!!:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

[Dr. Light]

Apology accepted, and you should be pleased to know that you are within the boundary of my good graces once again.:rolleyes:

And yes, I am fully aware of what a gun can do when pointed at something's flesh. Thus, I always treat firearns with the utmost respect, care, and vigilance. However, I will give the original "Metal Gear" for the NES as my example of what I mean by low-gore. No, perhaps not in league with reality, but it is fun to play, nonetheless. I cherish those days because I had a brand new nintendo and there was always a plethora(spel?) of games to rent at the local video store. I like my games to be somewhat reminiscent of those days, and I was just trying to give that kind of perspective. In addition, I believe it would in fact widen macboy's audience for the game somewhat, a fair benefit to him in the end.

[w_reade]

Dr. Light - point(s) taken and understood. It's just something that generally irritates me - the attitude that violence and killing in entertainment is well and good, and indeed great fun (whatever the consumer's age) - but actually showing nasty wounds or mutilated corpses is universally decried as sick, gratuitous, whatever. What's really sick is attempting to divorce the effects from the causes.

Case in point: coverage of the Iraq war. For the western news agencies, hours and hours of plane-bomb-tank-macho-man-big-cock-cruise-missile action is apparently fine, but footage of the direct results of their use can't be shown for fear of "upsetting" the viewers. Words fail me.

Najdorf - I've been waiting for someone to comment on the "Blood" option in MAFFia... Why is it there? Well, partly for debugging, partly so people on old iMacs can squeeze in another half-frame or so per second, partly because it reminded me of hole-punches in an amusing way, but mostly (of course) because I'm a big ugly stinking hypocrite ;).

On the other hand, given that the whole point of the game is "tear sheep's bodies to shreds with a hail of bullets", I don't think I can be accused of concealing the effects of firearms. My decisions in MAFFia may contradict the letter of my earlier posts, but not their spirit. IMO.

[Najdorf]

William, let' s face it, your just jealous of macboys game, that without blood will become a great family hit, so you wanna limit it' s audience by convincing him to keep lots of blood :sneaky: .

By the way, I guess an ultra-violent game with TONS and TONS of pure, juicy BLOOD would attract the masses like blood attracts insects... :sneaky: that' s the way to go :sneaky:

[macboy]

Originally posted by Najdorf
William, let' s face it, your just jealous of macboys game, that without blood will become a great family hit, so you wanna limit it' s audience by convincing him to keep lots of blood :sneaky: .LOL :lol: He hasn't even tried it. ;)

[Dr. Light]

I have to agree with you there w_read. Making it seem like there is no consquence can be dangerous. But(At the risk of sounding like a broken record), its just for nostalgic reasons that I prefered the no-blood option.

[AJ Infinity]

Originally posted by macboy
and don't want it to look religious ;)

hehe. check out how the character's die in the Director game Tamale Loco on Shockwave.com. They jump into the air, and do a series of flips as they fall to the ground (they go to hell :D).

The blood's OK with most people. Excessive blood in some games (Devil May Cry 2 for example; no, I haven't played it but I heard it was gory) may turn people off. In my opinion, if CloneShooter was a commercial release, it would get the following rating

TEEN
Animated Violence
Animated Blood & Gore
Comic Mischief :) (you can shoot the hostages, etc)


w_reade: When Lara dies in Tomb Raider (from falling off a very, very, high ledge, for example), her body is mutilated and all crumpled up and stuff. 8 year old think it's extremely funny seeing Lara get all messed up like that. Nobody really considers that sick. Now with a hideous monster or something slowly ripping off a screaming, helpless human's arm is definitely considered sick. Gore in games like Myth is pretty cool actually (a wargame without blood is weird), although it sickens some people. Body parts flying in some games doesn't really bother me...it's considered 'bad' or 'not needed' (sp?) by some.

[AJ Infinity]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
I have to agree with you there w_read. Making it seem like there is no consquence can be dangerous. But(At the risk of sounding like a broken record), its just for nostalgic reasons that I prefered the no-blood option.

How can you play a game like MAFFia with no blood?

[Dr. Light]

Ah, the little zygote is too young to have had an NES! :D I'll just assure you its possible.



Next round:

Still no rollovers for non-main-menu button(but you probably know that).

I like the practice target setup. :)

The black edging I was referring to was on just about everything. But especially visible on the soldiers. For thousands of colors, its tough to get EVERYTHING, since it not really black, but something very similar to it.

Maybe have an alternate graphics set with robots, rubber duckies, evil daisy flowers bent upon taking over the world, etc., etc.

I think the main menu graphic would be cooler if it had those evil guys with dark faces crouching behind boxes, dragging off hostages making wild gestures of innocence, etc., etc.

clicking on the "cancel" button when selecting a custom level abruptly ends the program.

Addicting, in a strange sort of way. Good job.

[AJ Infinity]

You're right. I never had a NES. As for the 32 bit Genesis and the SNES, yes, I had them.

[macboy]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Still no rollovers for non-main-menu button(but you probably know that).Yeah. I didn't really see a need for it.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
The black edging I was referring to was on just about everything. But especially visible on the soldiers. For thousands of colors, its tough to get EVERYTHING, since it not really black, but something very similar to it.Yeah. The weird part about it is that I don't see it when playing on 10.1.5 :sorry:

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Maybe have an alternate graphics set with robots, rubber duckies, evil daisy flowers bent upon taking over the world, etc., etc.Shivers and I were talking about having different "theme packs", like in one maybe you could shoot evil clowns.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
I think the main menu graphic would be cooler if it had those evil guys with dark faces crouching behind boxes, dragging off hostages making wild gestures of innocence, etc., etc.Talk to Shivers ;)

Originally posted by Dr. Light
clicking on the "cancel" button when selecting a custom level abruptly ends the program.Weird. :blink: I'll see why it does that.

Thanks!

[Dr. Light]

There is never really a NEED for eye candy at all. Shoot as far as "need" goes, we don't really "need" video games. The button rollovers(for all buttons) are very cool eye candy.

I've got 10.1.5 also. The edging is very slight though. Only the trained eye can really nit-picky it out.:)


AJ: Although the NES was cool, my acquiring one meant I had to miss the SNES and Genesis generation. So, probably you got the better bargain. However, the NES has an inexplicable nostagia which, unfortunately, can never be revived. At least, I can't see it happening.

[macboy]

Daniel Lurie also is going to be a beta tester :)

I'm still working on it ;)

[AJ Infinity]

hehe, I'm the same way with H2O. But I'm thinking of releasing a slow, soundless, voiceover-less version to my testers. :) Actually, I'll try to get the development completion to 90% (it's 87% right now).

[macboy]

jay_traveller is also going to beta test.

NOW everybody starts signing up :D

[macboy]

I sent version 1.0b8 to every beta tester (except jay_traveller who did not give me his email address).

It's from quiksoftware@programmer.net, but I mistakenly put no subject line :blush:

Thanks to Jake for hosting the file! :)

[macboy]

Grr! The link in the email doesn't work!

Jake: what subdomain/directory should I use.

I've tried
macboy.nuclearnova.com
ftp.nuclearnova.com/macboy
ftp.nuclearnova.com/~macboy

and some others but none of them worked :(

[Jake]

its http://quiksw.nuclearnova.com/cloneshooterbetatest.sit

old subdomain with new loging

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
its http://quiksw.nuclearnova.com/cloneshooterbetatest.sit

old subdomain with new loging Doesn't work :(

[macboy]

Okay, I sent a working link to everybody. :D

[Jake]

Originally posted by macboy
Doesn't work :(

Its because i put your directory as QUICK instead of QUIK , my bad

[David]

Looks good :)

However I think now the bombs should cost a lot less, like maybe 1200
Also it would be good if the bomb key was set to a symmetrical key such as control or space, because I use the left side of the keyboard and it's difficult to reach over and press /

[macboy]

Originally posted by David
However I think now the bombs should cost a lot less, like maybe 1200Okay.

Originally posted by David
Also it would be good if the bomb key was set to a symmetrical key such as control or space, because I use the left side of the keyboard and it's difficult to reach over and press / Huh? You can change the key config manually if you want in the Options screen.

[David]

Oh ok then :) never mind

[macboy]

Finished file/website!

Here it is!!! (http://www.industrialmagnolia.com)

I'll be sending a link to the registration file to all the beta testers soon. :)


* FINALLY IT'S DONE * :D

[Dr. Light]

latest nitpik-

enemies still need to move slower in the the first 5 or so levels.

need a cancel and ok button in the options screen.

menu buttons would be better if they were bigger.

help system is rudimentary. needs work.

would be good to have a few optional graphics packs BEFORE releasing it to the public.


To everyone who releases a METAL game:

One of our responsibilities as METAL programmers is to ensure that we relese high quality products, so that the game programming community can see how good METAL is. Make sure you have achieved a high state of polish before releasing your game as shareware.

[macboy]

If anybody here, even non-beta testers, could review it, it would make me one very happy person.

It's on MacUpdate (http://www.macupdate.com) already and will soon be on MacGameFiles (http://www.macgamefiles.com) and VersionTracker (http://www.versiontracker.com).

Thanks :)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
enemies still need to move slower in the the first 5 or so levels.I think it's perfect right now.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
need a cancel and ok button in the options screen.You can press Escape. I'm sure the average user can figure that out. :ninja:

Originally posted by Dr. Light
menu buttons would be better if they were bigger.Sorry. Shoulda told me sooner. Shivers did them and I tried scaling 'em but that screwed them up.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
help system is rudimentary. needs work.That's why there's a file that's called 'Documentation' :p The way it currently is in-game makes it easier to modify also.

Originally posted by Dr. Light
would be good to have a few optional graphics packs BEFORE releasing it to the public.That would take a very long time, and on the website it says 'Not currently supported' ;) They'll (hopefully) be coming soon.

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by macboy
You can press Escape. I'm sure the average user can figure that out. :ninja:

I'm not sure; it took me a little while before I tried pressing escape. The escape key doesn't really have any particular, well-defined function; it's rarely used outside of games and other full-screen apps, and it often quits the application entirely rather than just going back a screen, so you can't really expect the player to instinctively press escape to go back. If it's not too much effort (I can't imagine it would be), you should just add a "Back" button to all of your menu screens to save the player a bit of trouble, or at the very least add some text saying to press escape to go back. You usually don't want the player to have to "figure out" how to use your interface; instead, try to make everything as obvious and straightforward as possible.

[Dr. Light]

One thing I forgot:

"Custom levels" should have their own little nitch in the main menu.

In game documentation is off centered on my monitor, so that you can't see the first letter entirely. Move it to the right a notch if you're going to leave it.

Also, I really think you should make them slower. One common problem I have when making a game is making it too hard. I designed it, and I knew how to play it perfectly, so I put a higher level of dificulty in from the get-go. The user, on the other hand, finds this initial level much more difficult, and it can turn them off entirely. Pace, don't race, when it comes to initial difficulty.

[skyhawk]

I just read the VesionTracker reviews and OUCH! yall guys should have done A LOT more beta testing before releasing... man... oh yeah and word of advice (a bit late) 800x600 is the least supported screen resolution in existance...

welp, keep trying. with a 1 out of 5 on VersionTracker, I see no registrations in sight.

[Dr. Light]

Well, I tried my best, given my other responsibilities. Tried to warn him. :(

[Shivers]

yeah...i am proud of it as a first release, but yeah...ouch:(

We never ran into any of those problems with the beta testing :blush:

we did quite a bit and there weren't any bugs like that...:(

i am kinda bummed about this.

I am releasing a graphics pack for it (so you fight robots and recue aliens) to drum up some sorta buzz, but yes...again...ouch

[Shivers]

oh yeah, Dr. Light, thanks alot, you were a great tester, but you never mentioned any of the bugs that people are complaining about. I wouldn't expect you to, but don't make it out like you did.

[Dr. Light]

That was very pompus of you.

I took time out of my busy schedule to help my fellow programmer and you say something like that?

Furthurmore, I reported all bugs and problems which I ACTUALLY ENCOUNTERED on OSX, since I don't use OS9. It is very likely that there are various OS9 related bugs, but that is for testers with OS9 to figure out. I was trying to be helpful overall, and I think it was more to macboys benefit which I was working towards rather than just "getting by to get a free game". The game was definitely not extremely press-ready when released, and if soemone is going to pay money for it, it needs to be. I don't mean to insult, that's just what it looks like.

[Shivers]

i dont think anyone was mad at you for beta testing, I even said that I was very very grateful for you to beta test, but I was remarking that nobody, including you, said anything about these bugs, and now you are claiming that you "tried to warn us." I agree, there are some serious issues we need to work out, and I want to see the game touched up abit, but all of the beta testers gave us the go ahead, you gave a few gameplay issues, but nobody is complaining about that.

I seriously dont want to sound mean, or pissed or anything, i would like to be on good relations with everyone, but if we screwed something up, i think it would be more productive to offer a better solution than try to free yourself of any sort of blame, and for the record, nobody blames you for anything.

[Dr. Light]

I kinda gave a "hintola" about the game not being ready for sale when I wrote that "Note to all METAL programmers". I was not specifically refering to bugs, just product readyness and polish. I was not able to download and test beta8 immediately due to the faact that I have an internet connect, so my report was a little late.

[Shivers]

hows this:

I cannot speak for macboy, but I realize there are some pretty serious bugs in Cloneshooter. I think it is safe to say we need to update it a few times before it will be what it should be. I dont blame you, at all...I am sorry about what i said...i am just kinda bummed about this whole thing...i am proud of it as my first release though.

truce? :cool:

[Dr. Light]

Sounds good to me! Truce accepted [blood truce with the Gians is renewed]. Would you be interested in sharing some of your valuable research data, perhaps?


Sorry, I've been waiting FOREVER to quote "Alpha Centuri". :D


Yeah, the graphics were good. Definitely had no qualms with them whatsoever. And, if its your first release, hold your head high, you'll look back on it with a smile in a few years probably.

[Najdorf]

Yeah, to shivers and macboy, hold your head high, dont beleave those ba***rds that review games, the game is very nice. And you can' t do much on bugs you don' t see.

[macboy]

The textfont error they're all complaining about is totally my fault :blush: I meant for the font needed to be Techno and that's what I wrote everywhere but in the code I put Impact (DOH! :mad: ). Most Macs have Chicago and Techno but I'm not sure about Impact. :?:

[macboy]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
In game documentation is off centered on my monitor, so that you can't see the first letter entirely. Move it to the right a notch if you're going to leave it.I'm sorry to say but I think that's your monitor. Try moving it through the Geometry tab in System Preferences. I screwed around with my settings after I got it before I found one I liked. :sneaky:

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Also, I really think you should make them slower. One common problem I have when making a game is making it too hard. I designed it, and I knew how to play it perfectly, so I put a higher level of dificulty in from the get-go. The user, on the other hand, finds this initial level much more difficult, and it can turn them off entirely. Pace, don't race, when it comes to initial difficulty.Okay! I submit! :D I just made their speed 83% of the current speed at the beginning.

EDIT: Some new good reviews both at MacUpdate and VT... MGF hasn't updated yet :blink: Thanks AJ and Najdorf!

[Jake]

Originally posted by macboy
I'm sorry to say but I think that's your monitor. Try moving it through the Geometry tab in System Preferences. I screwed around with my settings after I got it before I found one I liked. :sneaky:


Actually I have that problem on my comp with ALL fullscreen games. It depends on what resolution though, 640x480 is ok, 800x600 offcentered, 1024x768 ok, 1280x1024 offcentered and weird shape, 1600x1200 sides are REALLY circular.

Changing the geometry should fix one res and screw up all the others I think



Macboy, im curious how the registerations are going to go, can you keep me updated? Thanks

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
Actually I have that problem on my comp with ALL fullscreen games. It depends on what resolution though, 640x480 is ok, 800x600 offcentered, 1024x768 ok, 1280x1024 offcentered and weird shape, 1600x1200 sides are REALLY circular.The main problem some users were having with it changing resolutions is that I tried to check to see if it actually worked when changing resolutions. I'm guessing MetaL was having problems with checking correctly so I removed that in this next version.

[Dr. Light]

all you gots to do is center it:


X=string width(yourstring$)



text ((screen_width/2)-(X/2)) , Y, yourstring$

Splitting it up into sections would also help. Like making a submenu to pick different help areas, or just properly spacing and labeling the output like you have it now.

Or something like that. Kemal gave me a good perspective into the shareware market: "They'll try it for five minutes, and if it doesn't work they'll throw it in the trash". You HAVE to gear your games like that, especially if its centered around a "mindless" sort of fun that a shooter provides. No bullying, attacking, or harrasment, I'm just trying to help.

[macboy]

Centering would look weird considering the way it's "typed" up upon the screen (if you don't press space first). And I'm also saying: if you need extensive documentation, you look in the most obvious place, the docs!

It's been updated to version 1.1:
http://www.industrialmagnolia.com/cloneshooter/cs11.sit

Should be updated on the download sites soon.

[Dr. Light]

Problem is "Read me First"="Ignore me". Who wants to sift through documentation. You've got to get inside the heads of those mindless, self-serving gamers to get at the dough.

[Matt Brown]

Macboy, the good Doctor speaks the truth. Read the Steve Pavlina articles again, and if you haven't already, you shouldn't be making games. I only read the ReadMe if I'm bored. Which I should never be if you're doing your job:)

[macboy]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Problem is "Read me First"="Ignore me". Who wants to sift through documentation. You've got to get inside the heads of those mindless, self-serving gamers to get at the dough. Maybe, but what I'm saying is that the in-game help system is adequate for most needs. The Documentation is where you look if you can't find your answer.

EDIT: Darn 60 second post... I just posted in Biz 101... :mad:

[Jake]

Ouch... sorry about perversiontracker.com .... I posted a reply there

[macboy]

Originally posted by Jake
Ouch... sorry about perversiontracker.com .... I posted a reply there I know, it's like they're picking on me :blush: I posted also. It'd probably be better for me just to ignore it now. :envy:

[Carlos Camacho]

"Impact" if I recall is a Microsoft font and if you install any of their products, your system will have it.

I added your release to the front page -- though we are not a gaming site, I like to support everyone's success. In reading the last few posts, I can only say.... It is VITAL to make a good first impression, in terms of polish and bug free gaming as well as not assuming ANYTHING about your players (ie they will read the readme). I say this time and time again. This is especially important if you are asking for money from people.

Interesting, "Crazy Golf" has been shown in this forum for some time. Polish wise, it is slick like DanLab's other games. His waiting to make sure it is perfect earns my respect.

Cheers

[Dr. Light]

Yeah, I've learned that products aren't made in a day. Microbian, as you know, has been in production much much longer, and is still undergoing steady tweaking. Its just a matter of time sometimes.

[Jake]

Originally posted by Dr. Light
Yeah, I've learned that products aren't made in a day. Microbian, as you know, has been in production much much longer, and is still undergoing steady tweaking. Its just a matter of time sometimes.

Microbian is almost a year old, remember the old glacial contest? Me you and Nevada entered. Our games were ALOT different back then... im glad i decided to make the jump from 16x16 to 32x32 sprite size :)

[Najdorf]

You've got to get inside the heads of those mindless, self-serving gamers to get at the dough.

Oh my, this is just too true; I think this is really the main problem in game making, you have to work for them.

Like: I was happy with a game with no levels, where you could setup yourself the parameters, with no point system because, really, who cares for high scores? Just try this little modest game with some new ideas, but no.

No, it' s not like that, you have to get the player and start to STUN him with violent graphics and music attacks, millions and millions of points and combos-bonuses, total carnage, 3D, textures, antializing, millions of in-game stuff to catch them.

And if you don' t surrender to the market' s laws, prepare yourself for tons of 1stars.

This is not what I wanted when I started making games, I did them for my own challenge. I dunno if I want to make games for them, those mindless, self-serving gamers.

[macboy]

The CloneShooter source has been posted in the Source Code section :)

If you have MetaL and want to see how it works, check it out!