Beginning development

[Hawksun]

Good day to the community!

I am a high school student and i would like to begin to develop games and maybe even work in this domain later.(yeah, we all have that dream i know.)

The fact is that i need to begin somewhere, so i would like to know what tools and tutorials i could use to begin simple game development.

Thanks.

[Iceman]

Well if you want to program in 3-D and 2-D (which in my opinion is easier to learn and more useful for gaming) try OpenGL http://www.opengl.org & http://nehe.gamedev.net/ (NeHe) for some great tutorials. If you're programming in Mac OS X and you just want to use 2-D try Quartz. Quartzeroids is a good game with source code which you can find at www.versiontracker.com. The way I learned programming was going to my local book store and reading up on whatever programming language I wanted to learn. What OS are you going to be programming in?

Iceman

[Pazolli]

Don't forget The Inkubator Project and Hooptie (SourceForge ('http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/inkubator/')/forum ('http://64.246.17.165/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=17')). We aim to cater for beginners and if someone has an idea on how to improve our game, they're welcome to implement, asking us for any help they like. Joining is also simply a matter of saying "Hi" in our forums.

Enjoy.

[Jeff Binder]

OpenGL is not a programming language, and you're going to need to know a language in which to use it. So if you don't know any programming languages, you'll have to start by learning one.

If you've got absolutely no programming experience, try a simple language like Python (http://www.python.org/). It's a very clean language, and mor well-suited to game development than most other similar languages. You can even use OpenGL with it.

Eventually you'll end up learning C. The standard book on C is The C Programming Language (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0131103628/qid=1023501511/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_3/104-5008841-9554349) (aka K&R). It's a great book, but it's not really for people new to programming. So if you already know another language, it's a good choice, but it's not aimed at people who are new to programming. I don't know off hand of any good beginner's book about C. Perhaps someone else can help on that one.

Exactly what tools you'll be using these languages in depends on whether you're using OS 9 or X, and if X, whether you like the terminal.

[Feanor]

The challenge of learning programming is that you not only learn the language, you have to learn the development tools and the library code that lets you do interesting things ASAP. I started programming in CodeWarrior and MetroWerks has some good intro courses on codewarrioru.com (I think that's the address).

I'm tempted to recommend trying a simple Cocoa tutorial, but Project Builder is very complicated to a newbie, what with build settings and multiple files and such. Cocoa itself, while designed for simplicity, depends upon a lot of abstractions which might just be confusing.

I think I would be inclined to push you towards straight ANSI C, which is how I started without too much trouble. Working with simple text input and output is nice and comforting and lets you pay attention to the programming language. You can do simple C command-line programs in Project Builder and don't need to use the Terminal -- PB has a console built in. CodeWarrior uses a console facility built in (SIOUX it used to be called) to pop up a simple text window.

C is challenging because you are responsible for your own memory management, but not until later you get into pointers. If you want to program for a living, understanding computer memory and being able to manage it properly is essential. Learning the hardware and software guts at the same time is a valuable approach.

FÎanor

[XxtraLarGe]

If you're doing OS X programming, I'd learn either C or Java first, and then move on to Cocoa. Dave Mark did a couple of really good "Learn Programming on the Macintosh" type books.

I found the C book on Amazon, they say they've only got one left in stock:
Learn C on the Macintosh (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201484064/qid=1023537238/sr=1-1/mikebrinkman-20)

There's also a Java book, but it's about $15 more:
Learn Java on the Macintosh (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201191571/mikebrinkman-20)

If you're using OS X, you don't even need to worry about using the software they include, you can just write the code in BBEdit, and then compile it using Terminal. If you need help doing this, just ask anybody on the board.

After learn one of these, get Aaron Hillegass's book to learn Cococa/Objective C:
Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201726831/qid=1023538127/sr=1-1/mikebrinkman-20)

Unfortunately, none of these books will teach you game programming. But once you learn one of these languages, you'll be able to post questions asking "how would I do this in Objective C?" and you will probably get an answer.

[Carlos Camacho]

There might be an answer for this question in our FAQ.

[Iceman]

Originally posted by Feanor

I'm tempted to recommend trying a simple Cocoa tutorial, but Project Builder is very complicated to a newbie, what with build settings and multiple files and such. Cocoa itself, while designed for simplicity, depends upon a lot of abstractions which might just be confusing.

FÎanor

Yeah I remember trying the curency converter tutorial when I knew nothing about programming and I got something like 36 errors and 60 warnings :rolleyes: . ANSI C is a great idea especially since you can use GLUT (part of OpenGL just in another framework) and convert it easily to other platforms.

Iceman

[WFleming]

If you are just beginning on the mac I would highly suggest reading Tricks Of the Mac Game Programming Gurus (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568301839/qid%3D1023685951/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F0%5F1/104-5067876-0407908). Last I checked amazon.com had used copies from as low as $5.

My only warning with this book is that it is terribly out of date. However if you don't have much game programming experience there are enough concepts in here to get you started (like how to do very basic AI, very basic pathfinding, collision handling, game physics). Plus most chapters have interesting interviews with game developers.

You will definately need more than just this book, but for there's enough in there to justify spending five bones on it.

[Lemming]

A little tip about the Dave Mark books:

Get the cheaper one. They both contain nearly the same text, slightly modified to allow for differences in syntax. I got them both for free back when I first bought CodeWarrior 5, on the reference CD. They're a decent learning tool, but they're freakishly similar.

[Hawksun]

Well actually i would like to develop for OS 9 in 2-D, i'm not quite ready to transition to X right now. I would mostly like to develop Role-playing games, RTS games and city simulation games, at least for now. Thanks a lot!:)

[WFleming]

Originally posted by Hawksun
Well actually i would like to develop for OS 9 in 2-D, i'm not quite ready to transition to X right now. I would mostly like to develop Role-playing games, RTS games and city simulation games, at least for now. Thanks a lot!:)

You might want to check out SpriteWorld (http://www.spriteworld.org). Definately a good starting place for someone with little experience and wanting to make 2D games on the mac.

[geezusfreeek]

Hey, I'm a high school student too. I had no money when I was first learning to program (come to think of it, I STILL don't), so I couldn't buy any books. I looked for a solution online. I didn't really know what I was doing, so I decided to look for C first, and then C++. It actually probably would have been a better idea just to skip to C++. Since you are developing for OS 9, this may be the best route for you as well. If you skip to OS X and use the Cocoa framework, you may want to read up on regular C first and then Objective C instead.

Here's a good link to learn C++:
http://library.cs.tuiasi.ro/programming/c/teachurselfcpp/toc.htm

After C++, you would probably want to go with some Classic or Carbon programming. I personally would recommend Carbon, as it would allow your applications to run in OS X as well. Both are about the same.

Here is the best online Carbon resource I could find.
http://www.mactech.com/macintosh-c/

Unfortunately, neither of the above resources contain any helpful tutorials that lead you through the making of an application. I think Apple has created some good tutorials on their web site now (not sure for Carbon though).

Hope this helps.

[Feanor]

I'll agree with that as long as it's a really good C++ book. I've got C++ Primer Plus and it's excellent. A book like that will take you through all of the stuff you learn in a C course/book, but will use a C++ angle. Used carefully, C++ is a fine language, but there's a lot of junk in there.
As you're looking around online, concentrate on the core syntax of the langauge like types, pointers, control structures, ascii text, and the like, as well as basic I/O. Avoid anything to do with template functions or that sort of thing for a while.

Programming is all about learning interfaces. The language is the interface to the compiler (which you use because assembler is so hard to write and takes so long). Then you've got all the libraries and toolkits to learn.

[Hawksun]

Wow! I didn't think i could get this much answers! Thanks to all! I am now confronted with a big problem: the tools. Since i hardly have any cash for big spendings, i need your help to find free tools to develop games. Thanks.

[geezusfreeek]

If you're going to program on Mac OS 9, Apple has plenty of free downloadable tools available on their web site. Things to look for are MPW, RezEdit, and any debuggers. MPW is confusing, but the compiler is very good.

You can download MPW from here: ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Tool_Chest/Core_Mac_OS_Tools/MPW_etc./

The rest you can find from there.

I doubt you can afford to buy Codewarrior. If you do have the money get Codewarrior, just get Mac OS X. It's cheaper, you get an awesome new OS, and the developer tools are cool. Developer tools come free with Mac OS X.

I strongly recommend that you put all that aside and consider getting Mac OS X, even if it's just for the developer tools. It is SO worth it. And this is coming from a fellow high school student like you with no money. I wish I had discovered the awesome power of Project Builder and Interface Builder from the very beginning (although it may have been a bit confusing, as it would be for you, but MPW is no better on that route, if not more confusing at that).

[Hawksun]

What must i download in the MPW folder of the FTP? There is way too much stuff there. :confused:

[geezusfreeek]

Read the !Read_Me.txt file. It's all there. Basically it says to download the MPW_GM Images, but it also has links to some helpful resources. Actually, once you understand how to compile a program, you probably won't use many more advanced features of MPW because it takes so much trouble to learn. Remember, if you need any help with anything, you can ask in these forums. I used to always use them as a last resort because I was embarrased of being so "dumb." I have found that there are no dumb questions.

[Josh]

If you have a *little* money, you can get CodeWarrior LE. It is CodeWarrior, but for $50. I like these questions, I actually know the answers for once :D

[geezusfreeek]

Originally posted by jabber
I like these questions, I actually know the answers for once :D

Ya same here jabber! :D

I never figured out how limited Codewarrior LE is. I just went for MPW cuz it was free, had a better compiler anyway, and didn't know what features were taken out of Codewarrior for the LE. And can't you not legally make any commercial products with LE?

[Carlos Camacho]

I could SWEAR there is an article on this site that covers Mac Game Dev Tools.

FREE
------
METAL BASIC
Chipmunk Basic
Think Pascal (The PASCAL guy here can steer you in the right direction)
Apple's MPW
Apple's Mac OS X Tools
Javascript
PHP
Perl
Mac Arcade Game Script Language (I haven't setttled on the name)

Shareware
--------------
TNT Basic
Omikorn Basic
Mac Standard Visual Basic (Buyer beware)

Self-Demo
-------------
Future Basic
REALBasic

You can also find some stuff that is along the lines of AUTHORING tools. (i.e. Supercard, Director, etc... use your student discount)
There are also some other languages like Python, Squeak, etc.... Please use VersionTracker to find 'em all.

Did I leave anything out?

[monteboyd]

I agree with geezusfreeek when he says that once you figure out how to compile something with MPW you'll probably never use any other features, but figuring out that much is confusing for someone starting out!

I use MPW for all my development at the moment (which tends to be Carbon with OpenGL) so once you get it downloaded I may be able to help. That said, all I really know how to do is modify a MakeFile to suit a new project and then use the MPW Worksheet to build an app out of that MakeFile.

CodeWarriorLE is pretty full featured as far as begninning development goes, by far the biggest limitation is that you are not allowed to distribute programs you make with it as shareware or commercially. I can't remember exactly but you might not even be able to distribute freeware games with it? But I'm not sure about that.

[Josh]

Originally posted by monteboyd
CodeWarriorLE is pretty full featured as far as begninning development goes, by far the biggest limitation is that you are not allowed to distribute programs you make with it as shareware or commercially. I can't remember exactly but you might not even be able to distribute freeware games with it? But I'm not sure about that. I believe (not sure) that you can distribute it as open-source (hehe, uDG). But other than that... fairly limited as far as what you can release... Back when I was ambitious, I was going to learn how to use MPW, but that never quite took place. Maybe I will try again...

[Josh]

Ah, I think I will try to learn MPW again :) Is the MPW on the CodeWarrior CD the same as the one on Apple's website? Because the one on Apple's site is rather big for a lowly 28k connection...

[geezusfreeek]

If when you open it it's just a shell that you type commands into it's probably the same, but may be a different version. They haven't made any new ones for a logn time though. It's probably the same thing. The compiler is the best feature. I think you can use the compilers from MPW in Codewarrior....

[Hawksun]

I'm back, finally! well thanks to all for the programming tools and help. But now i need something else: graphics tools. Right now i'm just looking for a free or really cheap simple painting tool for making crude bitmaps.

[geezusfreeek]

Well, I've always just used the stuff that came pre-installed, like Appleworks. Not sure exactly what you want. If you want to do some filtering stuff, I guess you could download GraphicConverter (it's shareware). Do some looking around in some download sites for other stuff too. I like pure-mac.com because it's easy to navigate. Others probably have more downloads, but pure-mac is just so easy.

[Hawksun]

Well i just want something simple, like paint.

[Carlos Camacho]

Do a search in game design message board for paint programs. Either this forum or the old forum had the answer to your question.