OSX Gamers need help!!!

[ThrottleMonkey]

Probably everyone knows that radiant has been a game development tool forever. But I don't think a lot of people know that it's trying to be ported over to OSX!

Check out the link below and help out if you can!

www.q3radiant.com

[Skorche]

Does it do anything other than make quake levels?

[ThrottleMonkey]

Well, a lot of FPS's (first person shooters) use radiant to make levels. Not just quake. For instance Medal of Honor.

[Skorche]

But that used the quake engine didn't it? So my question still stands, does it do anything other than editing quake levels? If that's true, wouldn't it only be useful to mod writers and commercial developers?

[Bachus]

Yea, all Radiant does is make maps in Quake3 format. However, the Q3 level format is pretty powerful, and very popular. There are several tutorials for the loading of Q3 data files, including the map files. (This page (http://www.gametutorials.com/Tutorials/opengl/OpenGL_Pg4.htm) and this page (http://www.gametutorials.com/Tutorials/opengl/OpenGL_Pg5.htm) immediately come to mind)

So if Radiant was fully ported to the Mac, you could use it to make your levels, and use the freely available code to load them in. Saves a ton of extra work.

[Frank C.]

Pretty sure it can handle Quake2 maps as-is, and Quake1 isn't that far off. GtkRadiant has HalfLife support, so 90% of the Quake1 format is in there, and there are already many workarounds - a brush is a brush is a brush...

It should also be useful for anyone who uses a level format based on convex hulls, since it protects mappers from themselves in that respect (unlike generic modeling programs where concavity isn't a crime).

So it's a great open-source tool for open-source engines as it stands, and the industry standard mapping app for Quake3 based games. The new Doom editor is also based on Radiant, so it's onward and upward from here... can't hurt to have it run on Macs if ya ask me.

[burden]

Originally posted by Skorche
But that used the quake engine didn't it? So my question still stands, does it do anything other than editing quake levels? If that's true, wouldn't it only be useful to mod writers and commercial developers?

This is short-sighted for a lot of reasons.

An active community of game artists benefits game-makers of all kinds. People making assets for their favorite game end up in a great position to make assets for your game. There is no doubt in my mind that the lack of a powerful and up-to-date level editor has been a major obstacle to such a community happening in the Mac-using world.

I look at the frankly horrible art direction in, say, most uDevGame entries, and I can't help but think about how there's no game-art community to support those developers -- just a few lone artists and a few Photoshop button-pushers, none of which add up to much. You should be asking, "How do I get more artists involved in games? Why, on a platform so top-heavy with artists, are so few artists interested?"

Radiant is a HUGE step. Making Quake levels is sexy work -- which, judging from the response to my efforts in this area over the last three years, is enormously appealing to artists who are otherwise oblivious to the bigger picture. Give them this, allow them to start seeing games in general as an outlet for their art (as a result of making art for a particular game that they enjoy), allow them to participate in a community dedicated to art-in-games, and that community will generate artists for you.

This also isn't the first time I've encountered the artificial distinction between one kind of amateur developer and another. The impulse to write a Tetris clone or whatever and the impulse to graft a new style of gameplay onto a AAA title are pretty much identical, and require many of the same skills. Perpetuating that rift between different approaches to the same craft only harms an already marginalized scene on a marginalized platform.

Which is to say, the development of new and better tools for amateur Mac game developers is a good thing, whether or not you have use for those tools personally.

BTW, "commercial developers" using Q3 technology don't map on Macs. So this is good for you and me, not for "them". :)

[Skorche]

Oh, ok, thanks for clearing that up.

[ThrottleMonkey]

IMO - Any port to Mac OSX is important. Especially game/map editor ports.

[Johan]

Isn't it a bit expensive?!? ($5000 for commercial use) Kinda rules out shareware devs using it for their titles.

.johan

[Frank C.]

Originally posted by JPersson
Isn't it a bit expensive?!? ($5000 for commercial use) Kinda rules out shareware devs using it for their titles.

Sounds about right, but I can't seem to find that price listed anywhere - got a link?

[ThrottleMonkey]

That doesn't sound right at all... especially since all the pc weeny game mod teams use it. Or maybe they have a warez version.
;)

[burden]

Originally posted by ThrottleMonkey
That doesn't sound right at all... especially since all the pc weeny game mod teams use it. Or maybe they have a warez version.
;)

Radiant is freely downloadable -- there's no "warez version".

The issue here is that the EULA prohibits commercial exploitation. If you want to use id's tools in a commercial project, you need to negotiate a different license.

[Frank C.]

Originally posted by ThrottleMonkey
...especially since all the pc weeny game mod teams use it...

Granted, many mods are made by weenies (myself included), but some mod teams have more talent and organization than many commercial developers - Threewave, UrbanTerror, Q3TF, to name a few...

I don't want to offend shareware authors (many do well for themselves), but a professional looking mod will get you *many* more downloads, and more exposure than a little shareware game. That experience and exposure can then be used to get a job in the industry, or funnel current users to future shareware/commercial offerings (just look at what happened with CounterStrike).

Don't discount the value of doing stuff for free - I've been offered jobs based on my limited contributions to opensource projects - but I make bucketloads of cash doing far simpler things :p

[phillip888]

Yah, me do simple things too, me do art too...

I can't remember the last time I made a Quake3 level because it was 'sexy' work, but I have recently taken up programming to overcome the hurdle known as the "mac game development community". Primarily the kind of hurdle any gaping void imposes. I know a few people taking this rout of coder/artist entirely because of the attitudes of most mac coders.

My experience has been that programmers see their-selves as the center of all development, and that artists need to scuttle about looking for their approval. This isn't the way things work. An artist will simply move on to other venus of expression.

As mentioned above. Mods are more popular than 'yet another tetris clone'. This isn't just because of the audience, but also the artist. Many mods completely take the coder an non-issue. Almost anyone can read a 3 page C tutorial and make changes to the game code for Quake engines. This allows an artist to create rather than bang heads with a coder. Otherwise changing the art can be done entirely without coding...

So, to make things short:

Q. Does it do anything other than make quake levels?

A. Here's what is easily possible on MacOSX:
quake1 & quake1 based GPL engines
quake2 & quake2 based GPL engines
Quake3
Medal of Honor
Jedi knight II
Heretic II
Return to Castle Wolfentein

Will anyone ever make a stand alone game using quake engines? Not in this community.

[Wrisc]

>>
I don't want to offend shareware authors (many do well for themselves), but a professional looking mod will get you *many* more downloads, and more exposure than a little shareware game. That experience and exposure can then be used to get a job in the industry, or funnel current users to future shareware/commercial offerings (just look at what happened with CounterStrike).
<<

Very true, Urban Terror's 2.4 release if I remember correctly got put back by some months because half the team packed up & got jobs; the A-Team's Action-Unreal Tournament got scrapped because they moved onto a commercial project, etc.

As I understand it though; an OSX version for radiant is *right* around the corner; the main page has news on it

~risc

[Frank C.]

While we were ranting away, GtkRadiant for OSX was released: http://www.qeradiant.com/ (on my birthday no less).

This release brings both good and bad news though (see qeradiant.com for info). I'm not thrilled with the whole Fink dependancies and debian installer mess, but as long as it works, I ain't complaining.