A (not so original) game idea (EV anyone?)

[DoG]

Ever since I played Privateer and the original Escape Velocity (I guess I could go back all the way to Tie Fighter or Wing Commander), I wanted a game like them, just better.

I am now possessing the skills to start off, I guess.

I don't want to make an EV clone, nor a Wing Commander clone, nor any other clone.

I don't want to make a dumb shooter, but 3D, more in-depth, more like EV than a space shooter. I would like to give players a wide range of possibilities of how to handle things. I am aware of the added difficulty of maneuvering in 3D space instead of 2D, but I think I can reduce it to manageable levels.

I have a whole bunch of ideas, but I don't want to guide any feedback. I would like to know what especially people who played any of the games in the Escape Velocity series would like to see improved, or different. Original ideas are very welcome.

You should not be bothered by the fact that this seems to be a small project, but keep the ideas doable, if impossible.

[Shivers]

someone is making a 3d EV nova sorta game, it is called unity but i forget where the website is...it looks good.

[Cold_Steel]

A good addon for EV would be if your character was not just some ship sprites. You would be able get out of the ship and move around on the planet. Maybe a mission requires you to go search for something on the surface or whatnot. I used to play an old MUD that was basically what EV is, only you could get out of the ship and go in the shuddle docks and to different shops...instead of it all just being a menu that pops up.

[Shivers]

hey, cold steel, yanno Phish from Cartographers of Myth, he is making Unity, do you know his email?

[applekid]

what i would like to see and only have been able to design, is a 3D space game with intricate plots like EV, huge galaxies, customizable ships, and exploration on planets and maybe even some fighting. in any 3D space game, i really want to see some intense dog fighting. i havent played wing commander, but from playing the Star Wars games, u cant get to do some major fighting with computer controlled players attacking you and helping you. runs through canyons and asteroid fields, over water, huge space fleets, etc. my list just goes on. i think it would be easy to keep the balance. all you need to do is earn money, buy and equip weapons, attack who you want, and pursue a career as a pirate. i mean, in EV, i had enough of the missions so i dedicated a pilot for purely fighting. but of course people can stay as a peaceful trader. thats why EV has always been well-balanced, u do what u want.

[ERaZer]

Originally posted by DoooG
Ever since I played Privateer and the original Escape Velocity (I guess I could go back all the way to Tie Fighter or Wing Commander), I wanted a game like them, just better.

I am now possessing the skills to start off, I guess.

I don't want to make an EV clone, nor a Wing Commander clone, nor any other clone.

I don't want to make a dumb shooter, but 3D, more in-depth, more like EV than a space shooter. I would like to give players a wide range of possibilities of how to handle things. I am aware of the added difficulty of maneuvering in 3D space instead of 2D, but I think I can reduce it to manageable levels.
Ever played Elite, the game that Ambrosia based EV on. Its more or less like EV but in 3D, take a look at it(and its two sequels) if you want to make a 3D space sim typ of game.

[ChrisD]

See

1. Old game Space rogue... for Mac etc... 3D space battle sim + tile based RPG.

2. Ever Play Home World for PC...
Award winning Space RTS game has some very cool ideas for User Control systems in 3d etc.

3. Personally I would like to see and EV style game done wiith a 3D engine...
I do not thing translateing it into full 3D movement adds anything to the game play.
Instead I think it would take away from the game...
I think a 2D style flight and controll system is much better and much more approachable to a lot of casual palyers... Where as I and a lot of people will not even play a 3D flight sim style battle sim
cause its well not that fun constantly trying to get a target in front of you...

4. I/we have been talking a lot about making a EV style online subscription game/rpg in 3D using BANG!... so I will talk to you on ichat about ideas etc.... :)

[DoG]

After some sleep, I got a little clearer head. Some of the games mentioned I have never even heard of, but as far as Elite goes, I have seen it, when the first EV came out.

As far as the gameplay is concerned, I think I could actually manage to have a 2D space sim AND a 3D space environment, for the player to choose which one he wants to use. Personally, I feel more at home in 3D, but like the way EV is played a lot.

I can say that in general, for single player, different "modes" will be available, and it would be up to the player to disable or enable certain modes to shift the emphasis on gameplay. For example, I can imagine that some people would like to walk around space docks in a FPS like manner, while other just like to hit the "bar" or "shipyard" buttons.

The problem comes with multiplayer, as everything has to work the same accross the network of players, but I can think about this when I get there ;)

Thanks for the input, keep it coming!

[Shivers]

what Unity is doing is making a 3d environment with a 2d grid that ships and planets are on unless a certain maneuver calls for them to leave it (and only for a short period of time)

[w_reade]

Space rogue was brilliant. I'd love an updated version.

Basically it had 3d spaceflight with your mouse turning you and +/-to control speed, but when you landed you walked around a 2d space station and could talk to people, play an arcade game, etc. There was a 2d map that you planned your hyperspace journeys on, making sure not to fly straight through black holes ;), and you had to actually fly your hyperspace journeys (fly down a twisty tube, not hitting the walls... I think scraping the walls would lose you energy, actually hitting them hard enough would pop you out into realspace again.).

I played it on my dad's mac plus for hours and hours, not least because it had copy protection when loading games and I didn't have a manual... so I had to get good enough to complete it in one sitting. Ouch.

[Damian]

Yes, I remember Space Rouge... on the Mac Plus I think.

Start small and work from there. A simple 3D combat against pirates, invading aliens, etc mode and a trading and ship improvement mode when you get to spacestaions.

[DoG]

Originally posted by Damian
Yes, I remember Space Rouge... on the Mac Plus I think.

Start small and work from there. A simple 3D combat against pirates, invading aliens, etc mode and a trading and ship improvement mode when you get to spacestaions.

It is easy to say start small. I have to do the design for a "large universe". Making a simple game results me in nothing than some experience, I would have to re-code most of everything when adding new, dynamic features which were not anticipated. I don't just want to do something just for the heck of working on it, but want it to be something cool in the end.

[griffin239]

OpenEV is in production at sourceforge. You may want to put your efforts into that project and maybe spin off your own version from that.

http://vendetta.guildsoftware.com
Vendetta is a free (currently) 3D multiplayer space flight/trading combat game.

As for old games, pull that old Amiga out of the closet and look up
MERCENARY II: Sword of Damocles.
This game had 3D polygons back in 1990, a huge solar system, a comet whose tail you could ride and land on the surface of, planets you could land on, little places to walk around in, things to find.
The goal: Comet Damocles is racing to destroy some planet, you're hired to track down
the parts of a huge bomb that will blow it up, so you go from planet to planet looking for the
parts and occasionally meeting some nice polygon people.

The number keys controlled your speed, 9 was lightspeed which would rip you to the end of the solar system ..real fast. 0 was a dead stop. You could see your altitude when decending through atmospheres, watching zero closing in fast, hit the zero key and come to a dead stop just before the surface ala Looney Tunes style.

Now a future space game. Fleet combat, in slow motion, with camera control and replay, thats what I'd like to see. Large scale battles for entire worlds or systems. Myth II in space.
A game that would put you in the directors chair of Babylon 5 or Return of the Jedi.
Not in the cliche cockpit of a standard space fighter.

It's a shame Freespace didn't make it to the Mac. I drool over the box everytime I see it.

[DoG]

I checked out OpenEV and Vendetta. Of the two, Vendetta is clearly going to be a commercial game, and OpenEV (no offense to anyone) seems like it is stuck. Looks like there is still something going on, though, but not much. And there is practically no documentation on what OpenEV wants to accomplish.

And OpenEV wants to clone EV, rather than to develop its own gaming style.

I am writing up a design document right now, we will see if this idea develops into a concrete project or if I will just make a quick demo to show off SSFramework in the end.

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by DoooG
It is easy to say start small. I have to do the design for a "large universe". Making a simple game results me in nothing than some experience, I would have to re-code most of everything when adding new, dynamic features which were not anticipated. I don't just want to do something just for the heck of working on it, but want it to be something cool in the end.

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?IterativeDevelopment
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DoTheSimplestThingThatCouldPossiblyWork
( http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeProgramming )

[ThrottleMonkey]

The one thing that would make Escape Velocity have infinite replay value would be... MULTIPLAYER MULTIPLAYER MULTIPLAYER!!!

Captain Hector can kiss my creamy white behind... ---> ( Y )

[DoG]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?IterativeDevelopment
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DoTheSimplestThingThatCouldPossiblyWork
( http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeProgramming )

I am confused about the intent of these links? Purely informational, or is there some secret hint I don't get?

Anyhow, I want to make a little clearer how I intend to go about the development of this project. I am outlining the big picture (akin the system metaphor), so I can properly divide it into modules which work together, but have some independent functionality, and hence can be developed piece by piece. This seems to be essential to almost always having a running version of the game/demo.

I like to do things right the first time around, but at least to get the idea right, if not the implementation. Can I get more input on what features people want to see?

[applekid]

If you were to do a 3D game, could you have some intense dog fights (whether its on planets or not)? I'm talking about Star Wars-movie intense. And definitely something more than a few simple menus when you land on a planet. Have a little RPG view so you can stop by buildings and talk to people and stuff. Maybe ground skirmishes on hostile planets. And when you board a ship, you get a small quick battle. Just a few ideas maybe you can throw around.

<Edited some text by request... Okay nevermind, it already was fixed... Changed the caps.>

[Bachus]

Unity used to be at http://unity.subnova.com/, but the site's been MIA for a while now. Phish has been MIA for a while as well. Haven't seen him months. *Wonders if Mark has seen him*

EV:O was a perfect game to me. EV:N may have improved the graphics, but there weren't any real improvements in gameplay (and I still argue that the new way the story system works is 2 steps back). Multiplayer is the only thing I'd really like to see, but everybody's been saying that since the original EV.

[Skorche]

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I have to say. I loved the game Terminus. If no one else has said it, I just did now. There were tons of options for piloting your ship and running targeting/weapons. It was just truly awesome.

[Joseph Duchesne]

Originally posted by Cold_Steel
A good addon for EV would be if your character was not just some ship sprites. You would be able get out of the ship and move around on the planet. Maybe a mission requires you to go search for something on the surface or whatnot. I used to play an old MUD that was basically what EV is, only you could get out of the ship and go in the shuddle docks and to different shops...instead of it all just being a menu that pops up.

Sounds like my game:???: , GC Except that it will be more like FF6 with EV rather tht EV with FF6.

[DoG]

I have thrown together a small document on my gameplay ideas and touching on some technical aspects of the implementation over the weekend. A 10 page document, harldy touching any details, though. Reading it now, I have come to the conclusion that it is not likely that I can produce something meaningful within a month, as the development needs many things I don't have much experience with, such as networking.

If you want to take a look at my rambling, drop me a mail, and I will send you the pdf (it is written in TeX). I think it could be inspiring.

Then again, I might do it just to prove to myself that I can do it. I dont insist on doing it all by myself (hint hint hint :ninja: )

[griffin239]

I totaly forget to mention VegaStrike at sourceforge.net

It takes EV Nova into the into the 3rd dimension.
It was great in the exploration phase but I got totaly confused in the fighting portion.
It has a cool turret system I think I could enjoy if I'd figure out what I was doing or had
a co -pilot.

Hmm that raises an interesting idea. Multiplayer space combat, team based, with group leaders.
The group leader essentially controls the battle fleet and takes them into dangerous territory.
The rest of the squad only has free movement up to a certain..visible distance from the group
leader, so you don' t have anyone going "i'm in sector 1, I'll be in sector 10 in about ten minutes!"
and missing the entire firefight.

Instead of lone targets you have entire fleets to deal with, even larger craft.
Group leaders could simply be picked by score so if a group leader drops out of the game for some
reason, the next highest score member could become group leader.

just an idea

[DoG]

Originally posted by griffin239
I totaly forget to mention VegaStrike at sourceforge.net

It takes EV Nova into the into the 3rd dimension.
It was great in the exploration phase but I got totaly confused in the fighting portion.
It has a cool turret system I think I could enjoy if I'd figure out what I was doing or had
a co -pilot.

Hmm that raises an interesting idea. Multiplayer space combat, team based, with group leaders.
The group leader essentially controls the battle fleet and takes them into dangerous territory.
The rest of the squad only has free movement up to a certain..visible distance from the group
leader, so you don' t have anyone going "i'm in sector 1, I'll be in sector 10 in about ten minutes!"
and missing the entire firefight.

Instead of lone targets you have entire fleets to deal with, even larger craft.
Group leaders could simply be picked by score so if a group leader drops out of the game for some
reason, the next highest score member could become group leader.

just an idea

Yes, the that is the basic idea. As far as my plans go, the player can choose between different interfaces, depending on what situation he is in. So, when you are in a small vessel, you might be flying it by yourself, but you could choose to communicate with other players or AI to do teamwork.

When you command a large ship, like a carrier, you could choose to use a simplified and command-like interface to play captain, and leave detailed decisions to the AI, but you could take manual control of any subsystem if you want.

Another idea is that two spaceships may dock, and players may exchange their vessels by simply walking their character to the other ship. How cool is that? Or how about actual capturing of ships by docking them and sending in a task force and fighting it out.

You should be able to determine how much you want to micromanage things in the game without having to do it all. So, you can either send in an AI task force to take over the enemy ship, and coordinate them from your captain's seat, or grab a gun and go fighting.

What would make this so much fun is if you could interact with the gameworld in any conceivable way. This way, with everybody doing things he thinks is fun, a quite diverse society might develop, where characters range from politicians and traders to mercenaries and ship captains, with the option to change at any time.

One thing to think about is how deaths should be handled. Should your character be terminated, or should some misterious device exist which allows your character to re-appear after he has been killed?

[AJ Infinity]

I can't wait till Star Wars Galaxies comes to the Mac. It's a MMORPG that has all the features in this thread. Well, almost.

As for VegaStrike, it was toooo big for me to download.