3D animation software

[snickrep]

Hello, I am kind of new to 3D and would like to purchase a good 3D package. When I used to use a PC, I worked with truespace 3D. But I really hated the tools it had. It was confusing. But anyways that was a while ago. On mac I am familar with 3D software such as Maya Personal Learning Edition and Meshwork. Meshwork is a great tool for basic low-poly models for games. Maya PLE is great too, but the watermarks drive me crazy and how you can't use DXF and 3DS importing/exporting. Plus there is no use of me learning Maya since I will never be able to afford it. I can't even afford a student version of maya. I would like to buy a software package that I could learn for game development. But since I am new to 3D, I would like some easy to learn modeling tools. I want to stay away from software like carrara studio, bryce, poser, amapi 3D, and etc since I want more of a professional 3D package like Cinema4D,Lightwave, or Animation Master. Or any other program like those I mentioned. I just want a good 3D package with has easy tools for modeling, good for making game models & tools/features for game development.

Jack

[Shivers]

there are many threads on this subject, look around. As in all of these, I reccomend Cinema 4d XL...it works well for me and you can look in the other threads for all of my reasons.

[Mars_999]

Not to be a dic* but I started a thread on this awhile ago. Check out the search feature. But on a lighter note welcome to idevgames. Hope you enjoy your stay. :p

[Carlos Camacho]

Welcome to the site. Indeed we have covered this subject (in this message board) many times. By the way, what is wrong with carrara studio? Have you seen a gallery with art created in version 2? Amapi 7 also has some nice tools.

Cheers

[snickrep]

oops, sorry ya'll. I didn't see the other posts relating to the same issue. That would be my fault for not looking before I posted. Sorry and thank you for your friendly welcome. :)

Jack

[AJ Infinity]

Cinema sucks compared to Maya or LightWave. MotionBuilder (for animation) is very good too. Amapi's one of the industry's most powerful modellers. And on the PC, did you ever use 3ds max? Although slow at rendering, it's good (and cheap) for games.

I have Lightwave but if I had the money I would get Maya. Maya's definitely the best 3D app on the Mac, but if you're a newbie, it'll be hard for you to learn it. LightWave will also be hard to learn but there are quite a few good LW books. I recommend New Riders' Inside LightWave 3D 7. Cinema's good, but it's animation tools and modelling tools aren't as powerful as LightWave's. Plus LightWave has things like fur rendering, cloth dynamics, HyperVoxel volumetric objects, realistic skies, a *very* powerful modeller with UV texture mapping and weight maps, and more. Maya has the best dynamics engine on the market, plus Maya has features such as Maya Artisan and Maya Paint Effects (ever wanted to use a graphics tablet to model 3D graphics).


Time passes

I just reread you're post. GET LIGHTWAVE. It just plain rocks, dude. Much better than Cinema and Animation Master. And Maya is the king of 3D apps, but it's way too expensive. If you are a student, you can get LightWave for only $400 from Academic Superstore. That's where I got it.

BTW, I seem to remember saying all this in another thread. :D

[snickrep]

Lightwave 3D is hard? I was told it was easy to learn?

[AJ Infinity]

Get some tutorials and it'll be easy to learn. :)

Get some from NewTek (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/) , 3D Links (http://www.3dlinks.com/tutorials_lightwave.cfm) , 3D Cafe (http://www.3dcafe.com/asp/tutlw.asp) , and here (http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/Main_Menu.htm) .

Type "LightWave tutorials" into Google for even MORE tutorials!!

[snickrep]

Do game developers use Cinema 4D? If so what games were created with it? And what games were created using lightwave besides Unreal 2003. Did any developers use lightwave to create games for PSX,N64,Dreamcast,Playstation 2, Xbox, and gamecube?

[Mars_999]

Either Lightwave or C4D are both excellent choices. Get the one you can afford. Myself I might choose Lightwave and yes I have heard that its harder to learn but I would expect that it might have more powerful features do to this. Kind of like C++ vs. C. C++ is harder due to it has added features that C doesn't.

[AJ Infinity]

Maya was used for games such Star Fox Adventures, Tomb Raider 5, Super Metroid Prime, Gran Turismo, Myst 3, and Star Wars Bounty Hunter. LightWave was used in UT2003, Deus Ex, Quake 3, Halo, MechWarrior, Fallout, Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Rollercoaster Tycoon, and others. 3ds max was used in GTA, Starcraft, and MANY others.

Go to http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/ to see how good LW is.

Also, go to http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/product/projects_list.html to see the MANY movies, games, and TV shows LightWave was used in. LightWave was also used in movies such as Toy Story Story 2 and Star Wars Episode 2 (used in conjunction to Maya, Discreet, Universe-which has th fastest renderer-and in house tools)

In case you're wondering, PIxar uses LightWave for modelling.

BTW, what LightWave renders in 42 minutes, Universe renders in 3 min. 3ds max takes over an hour on that same scene.

LW also has features such as weight maps, so you can draw out a level in Photoshop, import that image file into LW, apply it as a weight map to a polygon, and BOOM, you've got your level (well, it's a bit more than that; you'll have to do some twiddling in the Surface Editor, the Numeric panel, the Weight Maps panel, etc.)

No offense, Cinema's for noobs who don't want to spend alot of money (LW cost $1500; you can get it for only $399-899 from an edu discount site, though) on 3D software. But, LW has the best modeller for games and it's animation tools rock. Well, Maya recently got modelling tools that rival 3ds max and LW. But Maya's high end and definitely out of the question (there are only a few people on the forum who use it; most people here use cheap 3D apps or Cinema).

Y'all won;t believe me when I say this but Warcraft 3's cinematics were done in 3ds max. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I always thought War3 was made in Maya but now I have found out how cheap a company Blizzard is. No wonder War3's cinematics weren't very realistic. But how did they do the fur and hair? Yeah, 3ds max has the engine Character Studio, so there one reason Blizzard used 3ds max (Character Studio has things like fluid dynamcs and cloth simulations, plus crowd animations-which can be used for, say, orcs running down a hill :))

I think it's weird how Aaron Chan (a cinematics animator at Blizzard) said that all they use is 3ds max. If all Blizzard uses is 3ds max, why does Blizzard require that you know Maya in order to apply for a job there?

[burden]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
Maya was used for games such Star Fox Adventures, Tomb Raider 5, Super Metroid Prime, Gran Turismo, Myst 3, and Star Wars Bounty Hunter. LightWave was used in UT2003, Deus Ex, Quake 3, Halo, MechWarrior, Fallout, Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Rollercoaster Tycoon, and others. 3ds max was used in GTA, Starcraft, and MANY others.



Not that this really matters, but Quake3's models were created entirely in 3DSMax.

id is using Lightwave for polymodelling in Doom 3, and Maya for animation (as a result, I would assume, of Fred Nilsson's background in film).

I would expect 3D toolchains for this kind of game to become more varied, as the need for modelled assets (from player and weapon models, to texture-sources, to complex mapobjects) increases.

If you look at screenshots of Doom 3, you'll see entire surfaces that have been modelled at some point in the process, where a generation ago those surfaces would have been purely the domain of 2D art -- of photosource and imaginative painting. As this progresses, I think it'll tend to skew development houses away from "one package" for 3D toward whatever package fits the specific needs of a particular kind of asset.

[Carlos Camacho]

>Cinema sucks compared to Maya or LightWave.
I think unless you have actually taken the time to set with the app for at least 6 months, you can't really make the statement. Bottomline: Whether you get Lightwave, Maya, Cinema4D, Universe, FormZ, I'm sure you will be able to make some good 3D art. Then again, I have seen some people with those power apps, who don't know what they are doing, and thus make terrible art. On the otherhand, I have seen people with "low-end" apps create stunning work.

Second point is, unless you plan to try to break into the industry, why concern yourself with what "others" are using? Having said that, if you ARE concerned, then your demo reel will speak volumes I think. Frankly, if I had two artists in front of me, and one had a killer demo reel, yet it was made in Joe3D, and other had a demo of a cube and sphere, yet he/she made them with Maya, I would hire the first person. Sure, the person would have to be trained to learn the in-house apps, but that isn't a big deal IMHO. Teaching "talent" on the other hand is.


>Cinema's for noobs
Looking in this forum, I think we at least 3 members who have made game(s) with this product and have made income. That speaks volumes I would say.

Anyhow, it is like PC vs Mac, Ford vs Chevy, T vs. A...

Cheers

[Max]

Originally posted by burden
If you look at screenshots of Doom 3, you'll see entire surfaces that have been modelled at some point in the process, where a generation ago those surfaces would have been purely the domain of 2D art -- of photosource and imaginative painting. As this progresses, I think it'll tend to skew development houses away from "one package" for 3D toward whatever package fits the specific needs of a particular kind of asset.

The 3D models of Doom 3 look very detailed because they have incredible bump mapping, specular mapping and reflection mapping. But they actually have an average polygon count because the physic engine of the game requires a lot of processing power (the A.I. also). Graeme said Macs equipped with GeForce MX chips will never be able to run the game... Doom 3 uses all those little extra features NVidia and ATI (TruForm, Bump Mapping, etc.) included on the big expensive cards. Ohhh... crap. :wacko:

[AJ Infinity]

Alright, Camacho, I'll just say this out then...I don't like Cinema. :) Same way I don't like the Xbox, same way I don't like Basic, same way I don't like humans in Warcraft 3. :D

And Camacho, I said Cinema sucks compared to LW or Maya because it's true. I don't see Cinema competing with LW or Maya, although it seems it is.

Scale of major 3D apps:
Maya
LightWave
Cinema
Universe
All the others :)

I've used Cinema before. I don't like it. I can't stand it. Just doesn't have the awesome animation tools of Maya and LW. Show me cinematics made in Cinema that have the quality of Warcraft 3 cinematics and maybe I'll start using Cinema. But, until Cinema gets tools as powerful as LW or Maya I'll continue using LW. I mean, Cinema doesn't even provide the advanced camera setup options of LW! There's no Sasquatch fur rendering plugin for Cinema. Cinema's polygonal modelling tools suck (well, last time I checked, it got boolean support), no weight maps, no advanced UV mapping, no advanced texture editing, no facial expressions tools, etc.

I mean, many people like LW because it's so easy to make a human. LW's subdivion surfaces modeller and Expressions editor just plain rock. In Cinema, there's no NLE style timeline with drag and drop animation segments, there's nothing to compare to LW's spreadsheet editor, timeline, motion mixer, etc. How much time did you spend in LW?

[OneSadCookie]

The DOOM3 models were modeled at a very high poly-count, then reduced to the few thousand polygons you see on-screen. The bump-mapping makes up for the rest.

DOOM3 can't use Truform because it interferes with stencil shadows. In fact, the game can run fully-featured on an original GeForce, though you're not going to get useful framerates :)

Mostly what the newer cards add that benefits DOOM3 is fill-rate and texture units. Each light will take five passes on a GeForce/2MX/4MX, where it will only take two-three passes on a GeForce3/4Ti, and only one pass on a Radeon 9700.

[Max]

"Stencil shadows"?!?! Is that what they call shadows rendered in real time? As for TruForm, I'm quite sure Graeme said the game use that feature.

[OneSadCookie]

Stencil shadows is a technique (really a family of similar techniques) for generating shadows in real-time. It's not really anything new, Quake III can do them for characters (/cg_shadows 2 or something), what's new are the techniques for applying them to the whole scene and the fill rate on the cards to make it work fast enough.

I'd be very surprised if DOOM III used Truform. I do know that the Unreal Tournament engine could/was hacked to use it at some point, and that RtCW's engine can use it.

[Shivers]

No offense, Cinema's for noobs who don't want to spend alot of money (LW cost $1500; you can get it for only $399-899 from an edu discount site, though) on 3D software. But, LW has the best modeller for games and it's animation tools rock. Well, Maya recently got modelling tools that rival 3ds max and LW. But Maya's high end and definitely out of the question (there are only a few people on the forum who use it; most people here use cheap 3D apps or Cinema).

Y'all won;t believe me when I say this but Warcraft 3's cinematics were done in 3ds max. NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I always thought War3 was made in Maya but now I have found out how cheap a company Blizzard is. No wonder War3's cinematics weren't very realistic. But how did they do the fur and hair? Yeah, 3ds max has the engine Character Studio, so there one reason Blizzard used 3ds max (Character Studio has things like fluid dynamcs and cloth simulations, plus crowd animations-which can be used for, say, orcs running down a hill )

First of all...Danlab, probably the most succesful developer on the board (in terms of making *successful* games) uses Cinema 4d to model. David, who made lugaru, the best 3d game on the messageboard, uses Meshwork and Cinema 4d. I think it is tough to make an argument that it is for "noobs". Sure, you can say that a lot of commercial dev studios don't useit, but lets be frank...none of us are commercial developers.

Also, go here Macmall (http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/cat/Software/DAnimation/category.asp) and you will see that Cinema 4d XL R8 is $100 more expensive than Lightwave...So it is hard to say that "they" just don't want to spend a lot of money, also, on academicsuperstore.com Cinema 4d is a bit cheaper...sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

And why do all of danlab's games, and lugaru and such look better than h2o?

I am not saying that Lightwave is a worse program, but I am saying a lot of what you said wasn't true.

And to the bit about 3d studio max and blizzard: I think that holding what 3d program blizzard used against them is a bad idea, warcraft 3's cintematics were just plain old amazing.

[jamie]

As for cinema vs any other 3D package or any one program vs another for that matter, it comes down to how well each individual user uses that software. For me Cinema 4D is the most intuative 3D package I have ever used, I immediately took to it and understood how it worked easily and quickly. That may not hold true for everyone, but it was so for me. It's modeling and animation and rendering are all perfect for my needs. While maya may be 'more accepted' or some may think it does better cut scenes, I'm not going to be producing the next toy story in cinema so that is not a concern for me. And in the end, any package is only as capable as the user(s). Cinema has been used in many studio (movie) productions and I'm sure will continue to be.

In short I'd recommened at least trying the demo of cinema it may suite your needs perfectly as it did mine.

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by jamie
As for cinema vs any other 3D package or any one program vs another for that matter, it comes down to how well each individual user uses that software.

Agreed; use whatever program makes the most sense to you. Just about any major 3D package on the market now will be enough for most people's needs, and while each one has its own strengths and weaknesses it's hard to go wrong choosing any of the programs that people here have suggested. Most of these programs have demo versions available, so try a few of the demos and see which one you like working with the most. Ultimately, the quality of your artwork depends on you, not your software, and while a good 3D package certainly makes things easier, it's possible to create something in Cinema 4D or Universe or FormZ that looks just as good as anything created in Lightwave or Maya.

[AJ Infinity]

I didn't use LW in H2O, Shivers!!! :D I used Flash for all the art and After Effects for the cinematics. Anyway, the current screenshots on the H2O site are old and the game looks a whole lot different. I've been using LW for something else actually, on of my Director projects for this summer (I've been using. And I just said you could get LW at a low price. Every academic store has LightWave more expensive than Cinema. Actually, NewTek has different licenses on LW so prices are going to be different (but, you don't use LW and haven't experienced the "hell" of LW licensing. Just kidding.).

Danlab's Cinema stuff isn't very realistic.

I don't think David used Cinema in Lugaru. Just Meshwork and his own 3D animation app he programmed. I wouldn't say that Lugaru's gameplay is better than H2O's. It's graphics, yeah, but gameplay can't compare (I've changed alot around; now you're dissing me, eh, Shivers?).

jamie, modellers like LW, Amapi, SoftImage, 3ds max, and FormZ are much more powerful than Cinema.

Anyway, Cinema doesn't have LW plugins like
Sasquatch (popular fur and grass rendering facility)
HyperVoxels (powerful volumetrics engine which can do everything from snowballs to realistic dirt on a hill to cumulus clouds)
Ozone (another volumetrics plugin; haven't used this before but I've heard it's good)
Swift 3D (one of the most popular Flash renderers)
SkyTracer (much more powerful than Cinema's sky engine)
LipService (lip synching plugin)

According to a member of another forum, "[Cinema] doesn't have the maturity of other 3D graphics apps". That statement is true and Shivers, you should just get LW so you and I can stop arguing about "Cinema vs LightWave" (this isn't the first time:) ) I've used Cinema extensively and I can tell that LightWave is definitely better. I mean, LW goes so far as network rendering on 300 different computers :D, Weight Maps, awesome animation tools, and one of the industry's most powerful modellers. Well, you do have to use different apps for different purposes. Some of the setups I've heard off:

Setup 1 (Blizzard setup):
3ds max
Maya
Digital Fusion
After Effects
Photoshop
(Combustion can be used in place of AE & DF)

Setup 2:
SoftImage
3ds max
Photoshop

Setup 3:
Maya
Universe
Photoshop :)

Setup 4:
Universe
Commotion
Photoshop
Final Cut Pro
After Effects

Setop 5:
LightWave
Aura (or Photoshop)

Setup 6 (my lil setup):
LightWave
After Effects
(damn, I need Photoshop)

Setup 7:
3ds max
Photoshop
After Effects
Digital Fusion
Illustrator

Setup 8:
Maya
FormZ
LightWave
Sometimes SoftImage
Discreet, baby!

Setup 9:
3ds max
SoftImage
Discreet again, baby!

Originally posted by Mazilurik
Ultimately, the quality of your artwork depends on you, not your software, and while a good 3D package certainly makes things easier, it's possible to create something in Cinema 4D or Universe or FormZ that looks just as good as anything created in Lightwave or Maya.

there we go!! Someone else said FormZ, too! FormZ's architectural modelling tools are better than Maya anyway. LightWave

[igame3d]

If it hasn't been said before, and in case it has been said, I'll say it again.

Stay one million miles away from Animation Master, its a bug riddled monster from hell, with awful tech support.

Cinema 4D is easier to learn than lightwave...without a tutorial, you can just kind of figure it out, and there are plenty of plug ins. I mostly use the poly reduction feature then export to meshwork since our engine doesn't support other model types.

Try all the demo's and see how you feel about them.
Whats best is what you are comfortable with.
In the end though it will boil down to who you are working with and what formats they support.

Torque engine for instance requires .DTS files and you can only get those out of a free lightwave plug-in for the time being.

If you already have Meshwork, then you are well on your way to making the simplistic game models you need. I started using the app a year ago, and although its not the greatest thing inthe world, I've made hundreds of models in it.

High end apps tend to create hi-poly objects, there's nothing like killing someones processor with few models on screen.

By the way Cinema4D can open Lightwave models and scenes, something I don't think lightwave can do.

Oh and there is also free Blender...but I don't know of anyone on the Mac side using it or supporting it besides the Blender community. It's not as hard to learn as people say, I was getting great results in under an hour, but then had to switch to meshwork when I started working on a meshwork based engine.


By the way do you have some links to your previous and recent creations?

[OneSadCookie]

Stop arguing about which is better on paper, there is no right answer. The only right answer is which one is easier for you, personally, to use. Download the demos, try them out, and make a decision.

[AJ Infinity]

OSC: hehehe, that usually works. Because all of us on this forum use different software, and we like to argue about which is best.

Let's stop this right here. Nobody say anything else except snickrep (so he can say which demo he used and if he had any probs).

I will admit that Cinema would be the easy to use, all around way to go. Just move up to LW, Maya, FormZ, etc. later (well, pros use Universe because they can preview render scenes quickly).

[Carlos Camacho]

AJ Infinity, I just got a call from Macromedia. They are upset that you aren't pushing Extreme3D. ha ha Gotcha!!!!

>Danlab's Cinema stuff isn't very realistic.
I can't really understand that statement. The artist is going for a certain look. You can't put someone down for that.

>...FormZ's architectural modelling tools are better...
But that's the thing. Not many programs will do everything from A to Z perfectly. Each app must make some sacrifice, unless they plan to put a $10,000 price tag on it. I use Strata. I can do fast 3D work in it. But I stop at character animation because that is its weak point.

>we like to argue about which is best
I think most people are saying a.) it is often the artist and not the tool b.) use what feels right for you. Only a "few" people are saying, "Use this app because developers Blizzard and uD are using it, so all other apps must suck."

Anyhow, did the person who posted the original question feel that they were helped by all this chatter?

Cheers

[Mars_999]

Originally posted by Camacho
AJ Infinity, I just got a call from Macromedia. They are upset that you aren't pushing Extreme3D. ha ha Gotcha!!!!

>Danlab's Cinema stuff isn't very realistic.
I can't really understand that statement. The artist is going for a certain look. You can't put someone down for that.

>...FormZ's architectural modelling tools are better...
But that's the thing. Not many programs will do everything from A to Z perfectly. Each app must make some sacrifice, unless they plan to put a $10,000 price tag on it. I use Strata. I can do fast 3D work in it. But I stop at character animation because that is its weak point.

>we like to argue about which is best
I think most people are saying a.) it is often the artist and not the tool b.) use what feels right for you. Only a "few" people are saying, "Use this app because developers Vizzzard and uD are using it, so all other apps must suck."

Anyhow, did the person who posted the original question feel that they were helped by all this chatter?

Cheers

I doubt it! :sorry:

[Shivers]

Yeah, I am mucho sorry about that.

[igame3d]

And why do all of danlab's games, and lugaru and such look better than h2o?

:p Gahaha :lol: :wow:

That's hilarious, I thought the Extreme3D rip was funny but that takes the hilarious award for the thread!

Of course you are comparing apple's to oranges.
Danlab has several games under his belt, so does David.
AJ is a "noob" (I hate that term). Danlab and David spend the majority of their time developing and not posting opinions at whim all night here. That makes a giant difference.

As for Blizzard and id, those are teams of highly trained art director's, concept artists, 3D modelers, animators, and texture artists. Nothing produced by them is made by one lone short on funds person filling idle time reaching for a dream.

Snickrep send me an email, I'll show you how to make games with whatever you already can do in Meshwork, save your money for another day.

[Shivers]

good idea, learn Meshwork, if you learn it well and really need more power, buy lightwave, c4d or maya or whatever, but learn Meshwork first.

[OneSadCookie]

Or Wings3D (http://www.wings3d.com/)... much better than Meshwork!

[AJ Infinity]

Meshwork sucks, anyway. :)

>Anyhow, did the person who posted the original question feel that they were helped by all this chatter?

Hmm, I'll remember not to make posts past 3AM anymore. I talk stupidness then it seems.

>AJ is a "noob"
In what? If you mean "noob" in Flash gamedev, you're asking for it (big time). If I'm a noob in 3D, why the hell do I have After Effects and LightWave?

>AJ Infinity, I just got a call from Macromedia. They are upset that you aren't pushing Extreme3D. ha ha Gotcha!!!!
:D Extreme3D...doubt it's coming since Director already has 3D tools.

[Carlos Camacho]

>Extreme3D...doubt it's coming since Director already has 3D tools.
Pick on AJ day!! yeah :lol:

Extreme3D was a spline-based moderer with roots far back in Mac history. It ended up in Macromedias hands. (Actually, 2 or so older 3d Mac programs were merged into one to form Extreme3D) It got up to version 2 if I recall before it was killed by Macromedia. For a while, it was bundled with Director, etc..

You work for Macromedia and ya don't even know the history.. Tis tis.. One more slip and New Tek will give you the (kiki stock) HAMMER.. (You really need to know your stuff to get that inside joke. )

:rolleyes:

remember.. all in good fun... all in good fun

[AJ Infinity]

<very offtopic>
Ohhhhh, didn't even know bout that!! BTW, did you know that Final Cut Pro was based on a Macromedia technology called Key Grip? Apple bought it from MM. Actually, I've been a Flash user since version 5. I'm only 14 so I don't remember alot of stuff from way back. Well, I do remember [back when I was younger] downloading Shockwave so I could play web games on my library's computer.

Shivers:
>And why do all of danlab's games, and lugaru and such look better than h2o?
Remember, H2O's art is cartoonie art made all in Flash. Plus I don't have Photoshop. Like I said, the game looks a bit different now, so mocking it isn't a good idea. And really, does it matter? Graphics don't matter to me, and most of my friends, gameplay does. The first Sonic game, for example. The first Lemmings game. The first Metroid game. The first Warcraft game. The first Myth game. The first Doom game.
</very offtopic>

BTW, can we all get back on topic and stop messing with AJ?

Soon, OSC's gonna say something like


ajinfinity.postcount++;
ajinfinity.wastingHisTimeArguing = true;
ajinfinity.stopArguing();


:D

[igame3d]

I was defending you AJ. You haven't displayed the level of accomplishment that DanLab and David have. Kind of like not winning as many deathmatches.... if it were in that context you'd be...well a lot of gib, DanLab would be unstoppable and David would be on a killing spree.

I had more to say but I ended up closing the window in mid post after testing Wings3D one more time. Oh yeah, put that AE and LW to use and H20 could really kick things up a notch..all it takes is rendered sprites to make a difference...uh..aside from gameplay of course.

On Wings3D:
Interesting app. Why didn't you suggest to Carlos to adopt it, OSC? It could use developer support, is open source, runs native in OS X, it would sure beat rehashing early PPC code from PatchDance. That would move it into mainstream game dev use much faster than anything else.
It has a sourceforge page but I don't see any reason not to push a more Mac-centric build of it hosted here.
Between the source for Wings3D and Blender something really great could be made.


Ah camacho has replied before I did...Guess only us old guys know Extreme3D.

[Mars_999]

Soon, OSC's gonna say something like

ajinfinity.postcount++;

ajinfinity.wastingHisTimeArguing = true;

ajinfinity.stopArguing();



OSC would never do something like that!:D

[AJ Infinity]

He did once! But I won't bring that up again.

[Mars_999]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
He did once! But I won't bring that up again.

Yeah I remember that!

[OneSadCookie]

Originally posted by Mars_999
OSC would never do something like that!:D

I guess that's a challenge...

ajinfinity.postcount++;
ajinfinity.wastingHisTimeArguing = true;
ajinfinity.stopArguing();


:sorry: :blush:

I think the Mac OS X port of Wings3D is very good already... I mean, it uses native save panels, opens docs double-clicked from the Finder, &c. It's written in Erlang (what? (http://www.erlang.org)), though, so there's a slightly higher barrier to development than for most open-source programs.

I definitely think that this is where our community should be putting its weight, though. I mean, Meshwork is not free and is buggy and trapped somewhere in the mid-nineties, Blender is a disaster, and as we saw in the "what do you want in a modeler" thread, creating one from scratch would be a monumental task. Cinema4DXL, Maya, LightWave, &c are fine for those who can afford them, but the rest of us need something to model in!

[AJ Infinity]

Man, OSC, you're a riot! Always putting a smile on my face. :) OK, I'll shut up and


ajinfinity.deleteLastPost();
ajinfinity.postCount--;


Originally posted by igame3d
You haven't displayed the level of accomplishment that DanLab and David have. Kind of like not winning as many deathmatches.... if it were in that context you'd be...well a lot of gib, DanLab would be unstoppable and David would be on a killing spree.

I had more to say but I ended up closing the window in mid post after testing Wings3D one more time. Oh yeah, put that AE and LW to use and H20 could really kick things up a notch..all it takes is rendered sprites to make a difference...uh..aside from gameplay of course.


Well, yeah, alot of my work has been simple little demos (ie: NSURL resource loading, fluid dynamics, scripting language implementation, making a simple tile engine in GL, making a good AI system in Flash, etc.) Anyway, though, my little Flash based TCG's gonna be on Miniclip.com. And I have 2 Director games that are gonna be on Shockwave.com. I should take gamedev more seriously I guess. I would if it was my main source of income, but it isn't, though. I don't get alot of time for coding anyway (school, entertainment, friends, etc.). And I should close Yahoo Messenger so I won't get email alerts that people are replying to this thread.

Using LW for H2O's sprite means I'd have to spend extra time modelling and texturing the sprites. I'm just working on improving the Flash GFX now, though. The new H2O is *much* different from the one in the crappy, haven't-been-updated-since-March screenshots on the site. In fact, I'm gonna go take em down now. :)

[David]

Wow, interesting thread.

I use meshwork for actual 3d models, and cinema 4d for texture mapping and polyreduction.

I use an old version of meshwork, because an 'undo' command (even if its unreliable) is VERY necessary, at least for me since I have been known to make mistakes from time to time. However other than that, Meshwork's low-poly modelling is very intuitive and useful.

Cinema 4d's modelling is much more powerful and polished (i.e. automatically making the faces face in the same direction and such) but I still use Meshwork for modelling because I'm used to it and it's interface is much more mac-like.

Can't comment on Lightwave, or H20's gameplay, because I've never tried either of them.

[monteboyd]

Originally posted by David
I use an old version of meshwork, because an 'undo' command (even if its unreliable) is VERY necessary, at least for me since I have been known to make mistakes from time to time.

Yeah, I wonder that Joe Strout decided to give up on it rather than try to fix it.

[AJ Infinity]

General Uses of some 3D apps (note: these 3D apps can be used alone, though)

Amapi...very good modeller
Maya...king of animation, powerful NURBS, and dynamics/effects
LightWave...polygonal modelling
Universe...Fast rendering, powerful NURBS modeller
FormZ...Architectural modelling
Amorhpium...easy to use, powerful modeller
Cinema...all in one, easy to use, Mac user friendly tool
3ds max...one of the best 3D packages available; VERY good for gamedev (note: I know it's PC only :D)
Carrara Studio...powerful and easy to use all in one app. Has a Kai Krause UI
Bryce...we all know what this is
Vue d Espirit...Bryce killer
Poser...human and animal creation and animation program. Good intergration with used with LightWave and 3ds max
MotionBuilder...Character Studio killer

Note: It's late down here (and I'm tired) as I type this so this may not sound correct. I'll edit in the morning.

>well a lot of gib
No, I'd Flash em!!! I'm not just "a lot of gib" either. I'm more of OSC style, alot of knowledge (of Flash, PHP, Java, etc.), little demos here and there (well, he's done more than that), etc. And then sharing that knowledge. H2O's not my first "big" project either. Another one I had started pretty early but I had to stop because of the demanding art.

[Ian Kerr]

Well, I started out on the bug infested piece of junk Animation Master, as igame3d puts it :) To Hash's credit Animation Master makes animating easy. Animation Master has a lot of potential and if the developers took some time to squash the bugs I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. I haven't tried the latest version so don't dismiss it because of what I say. I used Animation Master to create the character models for my game, "Ancient Arena" (there is a thread about it in the Announcements forum). I also used it to create part of a short and an assortment of short animation sequences.

I also own Lightwave and I love the modeller, though it took a while to get used to polygons after using Animation Master's patches. I haven't done much character animation with Lightwave so I won't comment on that. Lightwave in OS X is very stable and reliable even with high poly counts. The renderer is capable of producing very realistic results if that's what you're going for.

If you check out galleries for different 3D apps you'll see that most of them are capable of creating very nice images. You can argue that app A doesn't have this feature or that feature but in the end it probably doesn't matter. You can almost always work around these kind of things and every app will have its strengths and its shortcomings.

-- Ian

[AJ Infinity]

Aah, I knew you'd come soon!!!

Shivers: At Creation Engine, LightWave is more expensie than Cinema. But that reaallly doesn't matter. :D (Get this, 3ds max is more expensive than both of em.) And also, I was just suprised that 3ds max was used to do War3's cinematics. Ever since I first saw them I said "That was made in Maya!!!" and I never searched for Aaron Chan's interview with CG Focus (in this interview, he says that 3ds max, not Maya, was used).

[gatti]

Animation Master for the Mac requires a lot of tinkering with classic extensions to enable a more stable environment. The Mac OS X version still won't be available until fall 2003 or later. It runs much more stable on a PC running Windows XP. It's modeling interface is a step beyond many other modelers that aren't patch-based. It's animation system is what is really amazing. Check out one of the two following links:

http://www.forum3d.kom-net.pl/dwnld.php3?id=94
It's 18 MB, just to warn you

http://www.hash.com/ftp/pub/movies/puppet3.mov
6.8 MB

The most reliable 3-d apps were bryce and Specular/Metatools InfinitD. Every program that I've used outside of SoftImage for the Unix system has "unexpectedly quit" on the mac at some time or another. Is there a way of porting that old $10,000 app to Mac OS X? It has absolutely no GUI. It's just buttons and text fields. It's great :love:

[AJ Infinity]

LightWave is pretty stable. Never crashed on me.

Animation Master's modeller can't beat LW or Universe or 3ds max. Or can it. I've never used it but I've heard plenty about it.

BTW, you're an After Effects user too huh, gatti? Cool.

[snickrep]

First I want to thank everyone for their support. I have a plan of what I am going to do. Since I can only do basic modeling,(making objects like chairs,tables,etc.) I will learn to use Meshwork or Wings 3D. Then once I can actually make a human and in-game type objects I will look more into buying Cinema 4D or Lightwave. Also, how is carrara studio? I here that its modeling tools are awful. Also which should I use? Wings 3D or Meshwork 3D? Whats the difference between them?

Snickrep~

[AJ Infinity]

Use Wings, then move up to LightWave.

Wings is more powerful than Meshwork. Also, if you'll be making a 3D game, use LightWave instead of Cinema. LW's modelling and UV texture mapping are good for 3D games. Now, I have seen Cinema used very well in 2D games. Never seen a 3D game whose art was done in Cinema. But that doesn't mean it can't be done. ;)

[OneSadCookie]

Wings is more powerful, faster, better supported, in constant development, has unlimited undo support, easy interface and good UV-mapping facilities. It requires 10.2.

Meshwork is not free ($30 US), it only does polygonal modelling, it hasn't had a serious update since like 1998, the interface could use some work, it doesn't undo any more, UV-mapping facilities are basic at best. It works back to like 7.6 or so. 3D preview is a separate view, it only supports editing the model in orthogonal or isometric views.

I guess you know which one I'd recommend ;)

Try them both, though, it may be that Meshwork better suits you personally.

If you're having trouble getting started with Wings 3D, you need to set up your camera controls to use only one button and the Nendo camera, then do the wine glass tutorials from wings3d.com.

[Carlos Camacho]

Carrara has a review on THIS site. Please read it. Version 2 is out and the renderings that I have seen are VERY VERY nice. As for modelers, as our review points out, it contains several types. I think that is good as it lets you tackle different types of jobs. In addition, it comes with Amapi, which can model almost anything (but needs time to learn it.) The cost is very competitive. I strongly recommend you get the demo. I think what you have heard about Carrara is the fact that it uses "rooms" to build/texture/animate things. For beginners, that can be helpful. Me, I don't like that approach. But if I recall, Lightwave breaks its modeler and animator into two programs, as well as Universe.

Making objects like making objects like chairs,tables,etc. is far from making human/organic type objects. Unless you are looking at low-polygon count human characters.

BTW, if you are a student, the academic version of Strata3DPro is $449.00.

From what I have seen from user's images, Wings 3D can make more organic shapes. I don't know about its UV mapping, but if I recall, Meshwork has it. BTW#2, a new version of Meshwork is out, so make sure you download it. Also, don't forget we have an old version of Amapi if you still run Classic. There are many tutorials for Amapi out there. And it supports a good number of formats for I/O.

Last tip, Vue 4 may not come to mind since it is in the category of Bryce. But you can model objects in it. The manual has some good tutorials. Also, DO check out ZBrush. You will be amazed.

Cheers

p.s. Is REAL3D, once on the Amiga still alive, or is it dead? Unlike Cinema4D and Lightwave, it never made it to the Mac. Too bad.

[snickrep]

I am planing on doing low-poly human models. No way will I be able to make high-poly models. So from what I have heard, Wings 3D is better with modeling and easier to use than meshwork. I will start on my game soon using Dimension3. Is that a good engine? I am also learning programing. This will probably take a couple years to learn, buts its well worth it. Are programing skills need for Dimension3? Can I export/import objects from Wings 3D to dimension3? Also, Wings 3D doesn't have animation support. Will I be able to import/export objects in wings 3d and animator8?

Snickrep~

[AJ Infinity]

OK, Wings is for you. LightWave's for high poly models with advanced textures, and realistic animations...way out of dim3 world. :)

Export models as OBJ's or 3DS's to use them in dim3.

dim3 rocks, and it's getting better and better.

[Carlos Camacho]

For questions on dim3, please start a post there. For questions on Wings 3D, why not download it, go to the import and export menu and see what is listed. :)

[David]

The problem isn't making high-poly models, it's making low-poly ones that look good.

High-poly models are easy. (relatively)

[codemattic]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie
If you're having trouble getting started with Wings 3D, you need to set up your camera controls to use only one button and the Nendo camera, then do the wine glass tutorials from wings3d.com.

its strange that wings3d cant recognize 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons - but it *does* recognize the mouse wheel! Go fig.

[snickrep]

There has been talk about softimage coming to mac. Is this true? For people that have used it on PC, how is it compared to maya and lightwave. Many game developers seem to use it. I know that Resident Evil, Resident Evil Zero, Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy XI, Virtua Fighter 4, Shinobi, Mario 64, and many others were made with it.

[AJ Infinity]

Maya and LW are more popular and industry standard. SoftImage is *very* good though. But what I really want to see on the Mac (well, we all should want this) is.....

3D STUDiO MAX!!!!

That is the most popular 3D app and it's one of the best apps for game developers.

Anyway, it is possible to build your own animation app or modeller for your games.

David: Making highpoly models is easy. Definitely. When I first use Meshwork I could get anything to look right. It was so jagged and ugly and, since I don't have alot of patience, I just quit and left it alone. I think I still have Meshwork but I don't use it anymore. :)

[burden]

Originally posted by codemattic
its strange that wings3d cant recognize 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons - but it *does* recognize the mouse wheel! Go fig.

:???:

All of my mouse buttons are recognized.

[codemattic]

Originally posted by burden
:???:

All of my mouse buttons are recognized.

really! how did you manage that? What is your set-up? I'm using a wacom mouse-tablet and 10.2.4.

Anyone else getting right and middle buttons recognized by Wings3d or is it just me?

[snickrep]

I have been using Wings 3D and I dont know if I like it or not. I think i like meshwork 3D a little better. I would like to start learning 3D animation so I know what to do when I get in collage. I also want to be a 3D artist. I am only 15 and I have four years to learn 3D. When I get to collage, the three main programs most collages will be offering are 3D studio Max and Maya. I never see any collages that use lightwave. I don't think I could afford Maya. But anyways I might purchase meshwork 3D just to kind of get started. Or before I purchase lightwave, maybe one of these programs would do me good:

Amapi 3D

Carrara Studio

Animation Master: 2003

Pixels 3D

Cinema 4D

Are any of those programs good to learn 3D and decent for game development? I just want a program to learn before I buy lightwave. If I start getting really good with meshwork 3D, well I be able to make better low-poly models in lightwave and would I get a good idea of how to use lightwave if I learn meshwork?

~jack

[igame3d]

Wasn't all that mouse button thing fixed by 10.2.5???

Maybe???
Or maybe your wacom drivers interfere?

[burden]

Originally posted by codemattic
really! how did you manage that?

I don't think I did anything special. :o

Right now I'm using a Logitech Wheel Mouse and 10.2.6, but the extra buttons have always worked, through several builds of both OS X and Wings.

Did you get the April Wacom driver update? The Read Me does mention some mouse-button-related enhancements. I don't have the mouse, so I couldn't say if those enhancements solve this particular problem, but it's probably worth a shot.

[igame3d]

Hows about you Wings 3D users open a Wings 3D Thread?!?!

I'm rolling the Meshwork one, but I'm interested in Wings too, so lets get a discussion going in its own place?

I have a few questions that shouldn't get buried in this thread... it says "3D Animation Software" and I didn't see any animation in Wings.

[burden]

Originally posted by snickrep
When I get to collage, the three main programs most collages will be offering are 3D studio Max and Maya.


Three thoughts:

1. If you want to get into collage, you might start out with paper and other physical materials before moving into the digital realm. Explore artists like Robert Rauschenberg or Max Ernst.

2. It's good to get a head start, but colleges will be more interested in your writing and, um... math skills than in your proficiency in a 3D app.

;)

[snickrep]

I don't need to learn how to draw... because I already know how to. I have won first place in a art contest of 2001, then second for 2002, and first again this year. If I couldn't draw I wouldn't want to be a 3D artist because being a 3D artist requires you to be able to sketch a character on paper before you model on computer. Maybe sometime I can show ya some of my art.

[burden]

Never mind.

Good luck. :)

[snickrep]

I am not sure what I want to do though. Should I buy meshwork 3D, then another 3D package around $50-300, then lightwave or should I buy a low cost 3d package and then lightwave. What is Animation Master:2003, Cinema 4D GO, Universe 3D, Carrara Studio, Amapi 3D, and strata like? Are they any good?

[igame3d]

Yeah Snickrep, show us!!
Don't have a web site?

Email me from here (see link below post),
then when I reply you can email me some
files, I'll post to my idisk and post the link
in a new thread to discuss the art.

By the way, even though I have an art education
I NEVER sketch any models before making them.
My pencil skills have gone to hell in since starting
a professional graphics career, 10 years ago,
it just wasn't required to get paid.

But there is definately a benefit to having reference
material, like a sketch, but I find the internet full
of refrence material, making the pencil unneccesary.

Here is an example of JeroMiya's concept doodle turned into 3D. I used our game engine's mesh modeling features for 90% of the work, finished off in Meshwork.

Doodle at top, 3D in OpenSceneGraph at bottom of page. (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jeremyeb/LuciferStar/images.html)

and here it is textured in iGame3D (http://www.igame3d.com/)

I simply traced the birds side view and went from there.

[Mazilurik]

Originally posted by snickrep
What is Animation Master:2003, Cinema 4D GO, Universe 3D, Carrara Studio, Amapi 3D, and strata like? Are they any good?

I'd stay away from Animation Master; from what I hear, it's horribly buggy and the customer support is terrible. Universe is great, although the modeler has some idiosyncrasies that take a while to get used to. I'm not sure what the differences are between Cinema 4D GO and the XL version, but if they aren't anything major then that would be a good choice as well. iDevGames hosts an older version of Amapi for free, which is probably worth looking at (amapi.idevgames.com (http://amapi.idevgames.com)).

[snickrep]

very cool! I would love to show you some artwork, but most of my work is at home. I am at school right now(boarding school). When I come home in a few weeks for summer, I will show you. I won't forget ;). Also, what is this igame3D? Is this a free game engine? Is it easy to use?

[igame3d]

Originally posted by snickrep
Also, what is this igame3D? Is this a free game engine? Is it easy to use?

iGame3D is the evolution of Tobias Opfermann's T3D engine/editor. It comes in flavors, Lite (free) and Pro (license).If I ever get back to work on the manual for the Pro version I plan to publish a book and include the software in that. 18 pages of scripts and comments so far...only touched on one simple game I'm making up as I go along, haven't even put in graphics (in the book) yet!

Since the last update something broke between the various versions and I've been too busy updating Antack to check into what works and what doesn't. Tobi has been busy studying for a ten page math test, two more months and he'll be free from school.

You can start using the older T3D version now, and beta test Antack for me at the same time :).
Antack Beta v2 051703 (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/FileSharing1.html)

Follow the big T3D icon to the Read Me & How To's (http://www.endtimegame.com)
Ignore the download links on that page. The instructions should be about 95% relevant to the new and upcoming versions.

Is it easy? I sure hope so, but I invented it so its hard to be objective about that, you tell me.

Ok I have to update the Antack GUI for all the new options.
Email me any questions/comments.

[snickrep]

what software do you use to make your games?

[igame3d]

Meshwork and Photoshop for models, bones and textures. (iGame3D Pro too, now with scriptable mesh drawing!)
Primarily I use .png files for reduced size.
Textures are limited to 256x256 due to people having low end video cards and running in millions of colors. Else I've had textures that were something like 2000x1024 or more pixels, without a hitch on 16mb video cards.

iGame3D (T3D Edit) for animation/poses of models.

Quicktime Pro and Graphic Converter for building animations (.mov). Also Final Cut Pro for fancy effect animations, but I haven't had need or time for many anims yet. One big explosion does nicely so far.

Any old text editor that saves plain text files will do for scripts. (damn that .rtf extension from TextEdit, I had to throw that app away to keep it from messing with my files!). So I use CodeWarrior or BBEDIT mostly for the text. But the SimpleText that comes with Apple's Dev Tools does nicely. Project Builder will work as well, but thats a lot more application than necessary. (join ADC and download dev tools now!)
(http://developer.apple.com)

I use rpl in UNIX to do massive text find and modify updates to thousands of files in a single command when necessary (only recently). God I love that thing!

I think thats it.

OK must get to that GUI!

[snickrep]

After I learn to use meshwork I would like to learn a more advanced software. Mainly for game design. What are some good low-budget or expensive software?

[igame3d]

Read through this thread again, its pretty much the list of pro graphics software, listing prices would be pointless since they are subject to change by the time you are ready to purchase them, student discounts and other special offers may apply..

For actually make games, designing them without programming there is :
dim3 -free

iGame3D- free and licenseable

Coldstone for RPG games like on Nintendo

Torque Engine free(RealmWars) and licenseable ($100)

someday there will be Bang3D!

Old Marathon Editors/updated to 3D free

and some card based applications like GameMaker

I should also mention searching www.sourceforge.net
for opensource game engines like Crystal space.

[AJ Infinity]

iGame3D looks good! I remember griffin239 and I talked about making something like that in an older thread. Glad to see y'all made it.

[igame3d]

You missed the first thread i started here about it (iGame3D) on the old message board, what a fight, blood and teeth were flying. One of the first responses was "program it yourself" ...uh-huh, people are sooo very helpful.

Then I met Tobi and he said "use the source, the power of the source flows through the engine", or something like that so I chanted the plain text scripto-mantra

get "otherDeveloper"
setb 1,true
storeb "wrong",1
get me
setf 1,999
storef "ego",1
size
make "iGame3D"
put

and so it was done.

hehe...well at least in my imagination.....just watched a really awful movie I rented at blockbuster that has my friends and their cool house (http://www.westgatenecromantic.com) in it, my old apartment too!.

The Movie (http://www.spartanentertainment.com/Profiles/VoodooTailz.html) was lame, the chicks were hot, and my graphic design is in it! I designed and screen printed Westgate's shirts and T-shirts years ago (1995) and my friend is wearing it in the movie! Cool!
I'm a happy man with his graphics finally in national video stores, after two years of video production, editing and directing with Final Cut Pro, my 10 year old CorelDraw art made the grade. I'm Amazed.

Hmm...if I watch it again, there should be a poster I designed and printed above the guest book the girls sign in blood....if the bad camera work caught it.

Gotta go watch it again.
:blink: But not on an emtpy stomach this time :wacko:

[AJ Infinity]

I started a thread a while back called "iGame: Apple's next i-App?". It turned into a 10 page long thread also. Sadly, it was deleted. I remember that griffin239 asked me to design the UI and help him with the app. :)

[igame3d]

pssst "I am griffin239".
Changed .mac email address in July for Macworld and new the .mac service to represent my work, and snag the name before someone else.

I handed out CD's to show attendees and 3D software developers and my buddy at Apple with information, some software (Garage Games' Realm Wars, T3D Editor, something and something else) and this silly video of me talking about iGame3D being a dream product represented by Coldstone, Torque and T3D Editor and everyone making the game dev dream come true with their software..
It was made in a rush, filmed in my bathroom, edited too quickly. I laugh at it now, so I'm posting it to the web :)
Bill's Keynote 22 megs (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/FileSharing1.html)

I just started using this log-in recently, registered the domain name, Tobi finally adopted the name and changed the engine & application name.

For me the change of nick here became especially important after watching idevgame's macboy take my good friend ..the real macboy's... (http://www.macboy.com) name and i didn't want the same thing to happen to me and my work.

A shame those "igame" threads have been removed, they contain valuable information for us developers who would like to make the best game making application possible. There are plenty of lame threads still hanging around, for example: "Could Dim3 be the next iApp?"...a thread thats only 4 or 5 posts and has been dead since October, and ends with the dev saying something like "Don't use dim3"!!! Go figure.

I vaguely remember asking you to draw up plans for iGame3D, since I've had several interface designs, but they are based on what I know already (T3D Editor, Photoshop, Final Cut Pro), instead of desires of other people, the people who will hopefully use it in the end, besides myself.

You can still go ahead and dream, and design, its too easy to simply request features, the hard part is interfacing those features! New concepts are hard to dream when we are busy testing the realizations of the old ones!

Well...i've killed a bunch of time here tonight :)
Must really actually get this new beta out, before the coffee wears out.

[OneSadCookie]

Don't forget that the Quake and Quake II engines are free and open-source (GPL). Considering how many commercial games were spawned by those two engines, I'm surprised more hobbyists don't seem to be interested.

[snickrep]

I am having trouble deciding what I want to get. I want to get a digital Music Keyboard to plug into my mac so I can make music for my games and since I have made up a few songs. The music keyboard cost around $199.99, if there is anything cheaper than that than please let me know. But then I also want a good cheap low budget software that I would like to get. I am going to purchase meshwork 3D since the tools are pretty easy to use, but I also want a more advanced tool for animation and texturing. A tool with UV mapping too.

[igame3d]

How much Money DO you have???? :)

Search the forums here for PlayerPro, its gone open source and you can make music with it. It used to be..a lot of money.
You can use your keyboard as a music keyboard, its pretty cool, even I can make a song in it, kind of.

See the Meshwork thread here in Art and Audio for something to do animations in with your meshwork models, I've posted the pre-iGame3D version of T3D Editor.
Also I cover U/V mapping.

You might want to start posting new threads depending on the topic you want to dicuss, i.e. Music software/hardware
U/V mapping tools.

I have a feeling you can use Wings3D for your UV mapping needs, then save as 3DS, import to Meshwork, save as Meshwork file and use in T3D/iGame3D. Haven't tested this theory yet. Since its kind of complicated.