OpenGL vs DirectX

[warvstar]

Hey, i havent used the Mac yet, so i dont know if it has DirectX Support, but i know it has opengl.

My problem with OpenGL is that the graphics seem to suck on every game made with it, and every game i see made with directx seems to have awsome graphics.

Example for DirectX: Warcraft 3

If you can prove me wrong, then please do. i would like it if i could find a good opengl program.

[OneSadCookie]

DirectX is only available on Windows.

Warcraft III uses OpenGL on the Mac, and looks the same as the Direct3D version. Quake III Arena and DOOM 3 both use OpenGL. Unreal Tournament 2003 uses OpenGL on the Mac and on Linux, and AFAIK looks the same as the Direct3D version.

You can't compare OpenGL to DirectX, only to Direct3D. They both expose similar functionality from the video card, though OpenGL usually exposes new features sooner than Direct3D does in the PC world.

This is really a flame war topic, and different people feel strongly both ways. All I can say is that the people I've talked to who've used both OpenGL and Direct3D prefer programming in OpenGL, and that I found OpenGL very easy to learn.

The other components of DirectX (DirectInput, DirectSound, DirectDraw, &c) unfortunately don't really have equivalents on the Mac, though supposedly the HID manager is quite like DirectInput, and CoreAudio seems to have a fairly "usual" API design...

[Mars_999]

I have programmed on a PC and have looked at using DirectX and it sucks. I decided to use OpenGL instead. Why? I hate the cryptic naming convention M$$ uses on all their code. Yuck. OpenGL looks like C. So it is easier to pickup on. DirectX has one nice thing going for it and that is the all in one API. But that is not really a problem due to their are many good API running around the net you can use. FMOD is one for sound, OpenAL, SDL is good to for a cross platform all in one API. But than again OpenGL and Direct3D is a flamewar waiting to happen.

[monteboyd]

Originally posted by warvstar
My problem with OpenGL is that the graphics seem to suck on every game made with it, and every game i see made with directx seems to have awsome graphics.

This has nothing to do with the OpenGL vs Direct3D, the quality of graphics/game is dependant on the talent of the programmers/artists and everyone else involved. It's like comparing a Derwent pencil to a Faber Castel, quality is in the hand of the artist.

[DCoder]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie
DirectX is only available on Windows.

True, but I recently came across MacDX (http://www.coderus.com/), which appears to be API compatible.

From their website:

MacDX allows software/porting houses to bring DirectXÆ based products to the Mac OS platform rapidly and cost effectively by providing the DirectXÆ interfaces and functionality so that the product runs just as it would on a PC.

Hehe, no pricing listed on their site -- perhaps that isn't such a good thing. :D

HTH,
-daniel

[OneSadCookie]

... and whilst we're into technicalities, there's WineX (http://www.transgaming.com/) (or even just Wine (http://www.winehq.org/)) for Linux...

[skyhawk]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie

This is really a flame war topic


Yes it is, and I was tempted to shut this down the second I saw it, although I will not. I will let somone else smack it. *grumbles about PC users not reading about this being a MAC GAME DEVLOPMENT SITE!* :mad:



note to carlos, on the front page, in 12 inch letters, write MAC GAME DEVELOPMENT

[macboy]

Originally posted by skyhawk
note to carlos, on the front page, in 12 inch letters, write MAC GAME DEVELOPMENT Try maximum internet font size ... then maybe they'll figure it out :shock:

[OneSadCookie]

If you read Warvstar's post(s), you'll see that he was well aware that this was a Mac forum. Maybe he was trying to start a flame war, maybe it was a genuine question, but either way, there's no need to be rude about it. Maybe if we're nice enough he'll buy a Mac :)

[Carlos Camacho]

Ok, OSC spoke for me. If warvstar is trying to learn about the Mac, and how to do cross-platform work, then he is welcomed here. If he is just trying to stir up the bee hive, then that is different. But let us wait on him before setting a verdict. Otherwise, Mac devs come off as snobs. Anyhow, warvstar, OpenGL is a tech that moves forward by commitee, while DirectX (or Direct3D in this case) is promoted/developed by Microsoft. I think the commitee way of doing things has ups and downs. Direct3D games when they come to the Mac must either be moved over to OpenGL, or use that Direct3D plugin/SDK or whatever it is called. I recall a few games are using it, but for the most part, OpenGL is what people are using here.

BTW, please post in the "correct" message board. Again, I have to move your message.

BTW#2, Our front page says "Macintosh Games Begin Here!" I thought that is pretty straightforward. Should I do a browser/platform check and automatically move PC-based browsers over to GameDev.net. :???:

[hokan]

Originally posted by warvstar

My problem with OpenGL is that the graphics seem to suck on every game made with it, and every game i see made with directx seems to have awsome graphics.


If your comparing OpenGL and DirectX on the same PC it might possibly be that your graphics card drivers "suck" at doing OpenGL properly - what harware / drivers are you using ?

It should also be noted that some games that support more than one way to do graphics (glide, OpenGL, DirectX) may be optimized for just one of these graphics APIs.

[Mark Levin]

DirectX is currently more advanced than OpenGL; OpenGL 2.0 should close the gap but it's not here yet. GL still has the vendor extensions to fall back on, but that makes development more difficult than it should be since each card has varying ways of accomplishing the same thing.

As for the "OpenGL games look sucky" issue, are you aware that Doom 3 uses OpenGL? :P

[warvstar]

My Work Computer Specs:

CPU: 2ghz Overclocked 2.4+ghz
OS: Windows XP,Linux
RAM: 512 - "I know kinda small number, ill upgrade soon."
Video: Nvidia Gforce 4 - 64mb - "I hope to upgrade this to Gf-FX 128."

Hmmm..... i think its because maybe nvidia dosent support OpenGL?.

But Seriosly i have saw awsome games on here with directx and they look awsome, but OpenGL looks very bad on my system.

[warvstar]

Ok, im not trying to stir up a beehive, i just want to see Mac compared to the PC.

I dont want to spend money on something i dont know much about,
I spent 11 years on the PC, so i want to see some good things about mac,
Before i buy.

And ohyea, i also like to argue "Like whats so bad about a good argument?, it always brings out the best".

Anyway since i see you dont want me to stress out the mac users, ill just stay on the topic, i want to see the Difference Between OpenGL vs DirectX Compared. Bye

[warvstar]

Originally posted by monteboyd
This has nothing to do with the OpenGL vs Direct3D, the quality of graphics/game is dependant on the talent of the programmers/artists and everyone else involved. It's like comparing a Derwent pencil to a Faber Castel, quality is in the hand of the artist.

So are you saying people are more talented with DirectX or just that ive only compared, a sucky game to a good game?

[warvstar]

Ok, heres a good question i want to ask.

OpenGL is the only thing i can get to work with Borland C++ ComandLineTools,
So i want to know if i make a Model in milkshape and use it in a OpenGL program, will the quality of the model stay the same, or will it lose quality?

[skyhawk]

Originally posted by warvstar
Ok, heres a good question i want to ask.

OpenGL is the only thing i can get to work with Borland C++ ComandLineTools,
So i want to know if i make a Model in milkshape and use it in a OpenGL program, will the quality of the model stay the same, or will it lose quality?

the use of loose and not lose has been annoying me lately. Anyways, Nehe has a tutorial on using milkshape models (don't remember exactly what number) and the model will look like exactly what you program it to look like. A model is a model, your world only looks the way it does because of how you perceive light. Thus, your model will only look how you make the user using the program perceive light (see difference between DOOM 3 and Quake 3, the quality lies in the lighting..... among many many other things)

[skyhawk]

>>I dont want to spend money on something i dont know much about,
While this is wise, most people just don't spend money because they fear change. People REALLY fear change.

>>I spent 11 years on the PC, so i want to see some good things about mac, Before i buy.
Warcraft3, diablo2, MOO3, DOOM3, Radeon9700, upcoming PPC970, devs who know more about their system than possibly anyone else :D

>>And ohyea, i also like to argue "Like whats so bad about a good argument?, it always brings out the best".
depends if it is a good argument, as in you are arguing to know more, or if you are arguing to win. If you argue to win, then you chances of ever learning something are nil.

[OneSadCookie]

I don't think you were listening, Warvstar.

OpenGL and Direct3D expose the same features of the hardware. That means that if an image can be created in one, it can be created in the other. If there's an exception to this rule, it's that OpenGL will often get new features first, due to vendor extensions.

NVidia does support OpenGL on Windows, in fact they prefer supporting OpenGL to Direct3D simply because they can create extensions that expose new features of their hardware without waiting for Microsoft to release a new version of the API.

We've also given examples of games which use OpenGL and which look as good as or better than Direct3D games.

At this point, it looks very much like you're trying to start a flame war. If that happens, this thread will have to be closed.

[Mars_999]

I think so to OSC. How many times do you have to repeat DOOM3 DOOM3 and how about DOOM3! No DOOM3 uses Direct3D! That's why it looks so good. IMO I think graphics look better on a Mac than a PC. I have both and I perfer the graphics on my Mac over the PC. Both have ATI cards.

[warvstar]

Ok,

Sorry about the bad spelling earlier, and when i said argument i never ment to win, just to get out the best.

And about the NeHe stuff, thats a awesome site, but the turtorials are only for Visual C++ and stuff, i have Borland C++.

[FreakSoftware]

While a complete proprietary solution can get the best performance, it simply can't compare to the standardization, portability, and widespread use of an open standard.

[Patrick]

Originally posted by warvstar

And about the NeHe stuff, thats a awesome site, but the turtorials are only for Visual C++ and stuff, i have Borland C++.

NeHe tutorials will work with Borland C++ builder. if you look at the bottom of each tutorial page there are like 20 links to different versions..one of them is for c++ builder 6.

[warvstar]

Sorry about that, I dont have Builder.

I have C++ Free Command Line Tools, So it doesent have the right Libraries.

[warvstar]

I like the PC but i have seen some nice Mac Reviews, for instant a 1ghz Mac vs 2.4ghz PC. The Mac Won! on Animation.

But if the Mac is so good then why do more homeusers own a PC?, Instinct?.

ps. I do like the Mac, its awesome.

[macboy]

Originally posted by warvstar
But if the Mac is so good then why do more homeusers own a PC?, Instinct?I'm not here to spend hours speculating on this but mostly it's because Apple isn't very good at promoting themselves all the time and now that they've fallen behind, it's a lot harder to catch up.

BTW, If you do switch to the Mac, you can download FREE development tools made and supported by Apple.

[AJ Infinity]

<RANT>
One thing I don't like about MS is how they just want to control everyone. they want everyone to use their OS, their game systems, their gamepads, their wireless networking solutions, their software development environment, their computers, their web browser, their ISP, their media viewer, their movie making software (Windows Movie Maker sucks compared to Apple's rocking iMovie (http://www.apple.com/imovie), their graphics technologies, their games, and on and on. Bill just wants to RULE, RULE, RULE! He wants to control the minds and wallets of the whole world.

I prefer OpenGL over Direct3D though. I had a baaaad experience with D3D when I was on the PC and ever since then I've loved GL. Anyway, I hope OpenGL 2.0 will kill DX 8.0.

macboy: Apple REALLY needs to make a good advertising campaign. Apple banner ads should be on sites like DealTime, PriceGrabber, CNN, Ebay, PC World, Time etc. Commercials should be good and agressive like MS's. I mean, remember when XP came out? Good Lord, they had ads everywhere. Circuit City, Best Buy, on TV, on the radio, in magazines, etc. Apple had NOTHING!!!! That just plain sucked. Apple also made a bad move by taking all macs and mac software and games outta stores. Now I have to go to CompUSA, the Apple Store, and lil small "non nationwide chain" computer stores just to get that stuff. The nearest Apple Store is in Atlanta (whoops, gave away my location), well, I think there's one in Tennesee. I know there's one in Florida. Damn, I just said where I live. :) Anway, more PC games need to come to the mac also. PC game developers should start making Mac games in the same boxes as PC games, so we don't have to wait months for them to come here. Blizzard did it just fine with Warcraft 3. PC gdevs who use DX to make their games should at least make Mac and PC version in the same box using MacDX (www.coderus.com). Same thing with software, I have to pay extra money to get the PC version of some software I own on my Mac. Now I do like the Mac over the PC though. They'll have to pry my iMac out of my cold dead hands if the Wintel world ever succeeds over the Mac.
</RANT>

[skyhawk]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
Anyway, I hope OpenGL 2.0 will kill DX 8.0.


I sure hope so!!!!!! DX8 is rather old... I want OGL 2 to whoop DX9... whether that is possible... well... if anything it will make hardware feature realization easier.

[warvstar]

Hey AJ Infinity, i think the same, and Windows Movie Maker SUCKS. But i do like Microsoft Bill gates is so cool, im trying to start something big. bye