Game engines list

[snickrep]

Can someone give me a list of 3D game engines for mac? Freeware or Shareware. Doesn't matter. :)

Jack

[sealfin]

Check the FAQ/MacGameWiki on the front page (click here (http://www.crissman.net/macgamewiki/index.php/MacGameGlossary) and scroll down) although probably the only engine in that list that would interest you would be GarageGames' Torque (http://www.garagegames.com/pg/product/view.php?id=1).

[snickrep]

dont you have to have a game company in order to use GarageGames' Torque? Is the engine avalible to the public or just employed game designers? If not, than do I need to know how to program? Does it require a team of people or single person to work with the program.

[Tycho]

Nope, all you need is $99(US), but you are required by the licensing agreement to release your game through garagegames.

While they've ported the Torque engine, I don't think they've ported most of their tools. Last I heard, they hadn't ported their BSP compiler to the mac, so you'll need a PC to develop any serious indoor levels.

[sealfin]

dont you have to have a game company in order to use GarageGames' Torque?
No, you don't have to be a company to purchase Toruqe, as far as I'm aware.

Is the engine avalible to the public or just employed game designers?
If you'd checked the link, you'd see that the engine is on sale, so I'd assume the engine was availible to the public.

If not, than do I need to know how to program?
As far as I'm aware, you need to have a knowledge of C++.

Does it require a team of people or single person to work with the program.
I suppose that depends entirely on the complexity of the project.

[snickrep]

Any resourse sites on basic C++? Also, can I see a example of some games created with the Dimension3 engine? How is Crystle Space? Is that a good engine?

[sealfin]

I suggest you Google for "C++ programming" (this seems to be a decent FAQ (http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/), and this a decent list of tutorials (http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/C++/) in .pdf form (although they appear to assume prior knowledge of C or another non-OO language.)

[Justin Brimm]

If your really going to learn C++ and really know it well, I'd suggest buying a book on the language; I'm afraid I don't know of any good books for C++ though.

If using Torque isn't an absolute necessity, I'd also like to point out that Obj-C is a very good language, and gives you full access to Cocoa. For Obj-C (and Cocoa), I can suggest some good books; "Cocoa Programming for MacOS X" by Aaron Hillegass, and "Cocoa Programming" by: Scott Anguish, Erik M. Buck, and Donald A. Yachtman. They do assume you know C and one other Object-oriented language though.

[snickrep]

Since I am new to programing, what would be the best language to start with?

[snickrep]

Can someone explain the torque game engine to me? Do I get paid making games? Is the programing language easy to use & learn? Is it required to have a PC to use torque? What about WorldCraft and Quark?

[Carlos Camacho]

snickrep... slow down, you will burn everyone out.

Any resourse sites on basic C++?

Look in general programming message board for my list of books on programming. Frankly, I think if you are new to programming, thinking of working with Torque, Crystal Space, etc is a bit out of your reach IMHO. ie You must learn to crawl before using a keryboard.

If I recall, you want to make 3D games, but lack knowledge of 3D and programming. There is an article here on different languages. Please read it.

My comment would be....
1. Go to dim3, read ALL the threads, and find out what you must learn and get in order to use it to make games. It might not be ready for the masses, but Brian is workin hard on it and someday it will.
or
2. Get a book on learning C (see my list), and get a book on 3d concepts, and perhaps a book on OpenGL. Learn that, and then do all NeHe tutorials.
or
3. Get a book on C, as well as Carbon programming, and get Black Shades' source code and start using it to learn about how David created a 3d game.
or
4. For get your desire to make a game TODAY, buckle down and learn Cocoa/ObC and OpenGL.

Maybe there are some other ways to go about it. But right now, I see this going around and around, like the thread on "Which 3D app to get." (ie we keep answering the question, yet the poster keeps asking the same question. :mad: )

Bottomline, 3d is cool, but you shouldn't expect to jump right into it IMHO. 2D can be hard enough!

Quark makes a DTP program. I don't think you want to make games with that. Though the company DOES like to play games with its customer base.

Cheers

[igame3d]

Originally posted by snickrep
Can someone explain the torque game engine to me?
Torque is C++, you license the code for $100 to publish a game through Garage Games. $10,000 for unlimited publishing rights (within whatever rules they may have)
You can Download RealmWars for free and use the editor built into that game to make levels for RealmWars and learn how to use the engine tools before buying. Read the website and docs at garagegames.com (http://www.garagegames.com)

Do I get paid making games?
NO, you pay them to use their engine.

Is the programing language easy to use & learn? I doubt highly that C++ is going to be easy for you to learn efficiantly fast enough to make a game in Torque, especially all by yourself.

Is it required to have a PC to use torque? NO it compiles and runs on MAC OS 9 and MAC OS X as well.

Is it required to have a PC .......to use WorldCraft and Quark?
YES it does require a PC for those two apps. To make Models for Torque games on a Mac you need NewTek Lightwave and an export plugin from GnomeTech.

(Carlos was talking about QuarkXpress, desk top publishing software, not QUARK the PC 3D editor)


Ok I think I covered everything on that batch of questions.

[igame3d]

Originally posted by snickrep
Any resourse sites on basic C++?
For C++ sites go to google.com and search
Mac C++ Tutorial
then maybe you'll see some good sites or get lost on the 54,000 sites that come up!

Also, can I see a example of some games created with the Dimension3 engine?

Read the Dim3 thread here. Dim3 comes with an example game.

How is Crystle Space? Is that a good engine?

I've not seen anything come out of Crystle Space in the year I've been watching it. Again you are going to need to know how to program.

[igame3d]

Originally posted by snickrep
Can someone give me a list of 3D game engines for mac? Freeware or Shareware. Doesn't matter. :)

Jack
For actually make games, designing them without too much programming there is :

dim3 -free

iGame3D- free and licenseable $your-$oul

Coldstone for RPG games like on Nintendo $50

Torque Engine free(RealmWars) and licenseable to program with $100 or $10,000

Someday there will be Bang3D!

Aleph One for Marathon2 Engine 3D free

The Green Machine is for making side scrolling shooters.

And some card based applications like GameMaker, which has internet play support. might be $25 or something.

Hmm is that it?

[snickrep]

I know with lightwave, bryce, Vue, and terragan, you can make skies with the sky generator. Torque also has a feature to export/import a sky into your game. Can you do this with T3D or Dim3? Oh sorry for all these questions annoying you. It justs I have a lot of questions. I will stop and gave ya'll a break at some point. ;)

[igame3d]

yes you can do this with T3D/iGame3D.
I have not perfected the technique but Tobi has.
Essentially you make a big box in meshwork,

Select all and invert the faces.

set each side to a different material for a total of
six materials.
Use the appropriate planar mapping for each side.
In front view, select one side at a time.

left and right sides are X mapped
Top and Bottom are Y mapped
switch to top view, select the top and bottom poly's on the screen in turn (this is your front and back)
they get Z mapping

Now all you have to do is render out your sky to 6 different images, and apply to the model. With T3D or iGame3D there are a few ways to do this.
1. Apply Directly to the material in Meshwork (not really recomended...but can be done)
You then use MeshKrack to rip the .bmp files out of the meshwork file so T3D will read them in when using the command, after ripping them it labels them the model name followed by the material number...except the first material has a zero, a little confusing, but it works:

make "skybox" // or whatever name you called it
lux true // make it self illuminated so lighting doesn't effect it

there's a skybox!

2. A few extra steps but smaller meshwork files, and more reuseability: Don't apply textures in Meshwork, just set the box facings.
2b. save your skybox images with recognizable names like:
front.png, back.png, left.png, right.png, top.png, bottom.png, then put them in the models folder
2c. in T3D/iGame3D set up a script like so


loadtex "Models/front.png"
loadtex "Models/back.png"
loadtex "Models/left.png"
loadtex "Models/right.png"
loadtex "Models/top.png"
loadtex "Models/bottom.png"

make "skybox" //whatever you named it
tex 1,"Models/front.png" // material,"path/image"
tex 2,"Models/back.png"
tex 3,"Models/left.png"
tex 4,"Models/right.png"
tex 5,"Models/top.png"
tex 6,"Models/bottom.png"
lux true


Get : SampleSkyboxMeshwork.sit to see what I'm talking about (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/FileSharing1.html)

Don't worry about questions, sure beats just posting "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but here is my opinion about it." :)

Plus this kind of helps me write my book, maybe.

Hehe, the textures are backwards do to meshwork planar mode (I guess) (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/frontrightbottombackwards.jpg)
I replaced my sample skybox with new textures.
Ugh, that gave me a headache.
I included Photoshop action and droplet to flip and rotate some of those textures should anyway need to do that in again in the future.

Oh one more iGame3D Method, in the Pro version:
import a meshwork box into the mesh editor
select the faces of the model
set the skybox texture, adjust the size and rotation
save out file from T3D to the Models folder as for example "newsky.mesh"
this saves the path/name of the texture required into the meshwork file as new data, meshwork doesn't see it, but T3D does.

then use the script command
mesh "Models/newsky.mesh"

whoomp there it is! Only you can't attach scripts or move this object and it acts as a collission boundary...useful for making a quick and neat looking room

[snickrep]

does the sky have to be a sky box? What about a 360 sky circle?

[igame3d]

I think its harder to texture a sphere...you have an issue with the seam, I believe. Also Sphere's would require more polygons, which is not as efficient as a cube.

Maybe only half a sphere, because its really a waste to have all those poly's under ground.

here's a quick two sky spheres I made, the one in the middle uses planar mapping, and the outer one uses pinned mapping. both are transparent.

http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/skyshpered.jpg

But they are also 320 Polygons each as opposed to skybox that is 12 polygons.

oops had a typo in the filename...fixed

[snickrep]

What game programing language is best to start with? Dim3 uses Java I believe, but I'm not sure what T3D uses. I hear C++ is hard to learn.

[igame3d]

You won't be programming T3D or iGame3D, its an application that lets you make games. It has its very own scripting language, examples are in my posts above.

Same with dim3, you script with JavaScript, not Java, they are different.

You have to FOCUS on what you want to do, either art, design, textures, animations, or programming.
You can't do it all from the outset.
Start somewhere, and grow from there.

[snickrep]

I want to stick and stay with 3D modeling. But I also want to make a game for fun. I was just wondering if there is any programing involved for T3D and dim3. Do I start from scratch or do I just work with examples there on? What do these engines come with? Are they actual level editors where you can place objects and make levels and etc? Can I see some screens of the T3D engine? And one more thing, I believe you said you moded tomb raider III. What do you mean by that? Isn't tomb raider a hard game to mod since no actual level editor is made for it ( well except for the level editor for Tomb Raider chronicles and that fan made editor for PC) .

[igame3d]

>Do I start from scratch or do I just work with examples there on?
Yes work with examples, until you are ready to go from there.

> What do these engines come with? dowload dim3 to find out, its got a demo game and a bunch of apps to work games with, T3D or iGame3D come with what ever I happen to feel like showing off at the time, an application to crack textures out of meshwork, an applescript to convert 3DS files for use in Meshwork...some other stuff. too much usually, the first and last "big" demo I posted was like 120 megs. get a fairly decent working version here (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/FileSharing1.html) get Antack and/or T3D_for_meshwork.

Are they actual level editors where you can place objects and make levels and etc? Yes there are level editors, animation editors, and all kinds of goodness.

Can I see some screens of the T3D engine?GO HERE (http://www.endtimegame.com
)

?And one more thing, I believe you said you moded tomb raider III. What do you mean by that? I built a kick ass level for Tomb Raider Chronicles, the editor for Mac OS 9 and X ships with the game. its VERY easy to use. I didn't modify any scripts but made lots of mad fun, and got to demo it at Apple's Game's Paviliion at Macworld NY 2000.
Hot damn!

No stone unturned.

[snickrep]

the TR level editor is easy. I am making a level with it right now and I made a level when I had it for PC. I bought for mac recently. I miss the pc programs like strpix. But mac does have the one program similar to trwest for pc. Anyways I wanted to ask a few more questions:

Can I add 3D movie clips to play during games with Dim3, blender, or T3D to make a storyline?

Can i make title menus for my games with Dim3, Blender, and T3D?

Can I port my games to PC so windows users can play my games?

Can I use a program like cinema 4D or lightwave to model then import them to the blender game engine?

Do the created games open in a full screen window?

Are there mac game engines for quake III and Unreal? What kind of games can I make with them? Can I make 3rd person type games and platforming?

[igame3d]

Can I add 3D movie clips to play during games with Dim3, blender, or T3D to make a storyline?
Don't know about Dim3, to my Knowledge T3D's movie abilities are limited to 15 frames, large movies tend to make the game take forever to load. I imagine you could take several movies, patch them together somehow. But I think making the movie in the engine with 3D models as the scene would be more efficient. Blender's game engine isn't working yet, so I don't know what its capable of. Having my own engine doesn't leave much time for other people's engines.

Can i make title menus for my games with Dim3, Blender, and T3D? uh...I imagine yes for Dim3, Blender is unknown but probably you can make ANYTHING with it, once the game engine is working. And yes most definately with T3D/iGame3D.

Can I port my games to PC so windows users can play my games?
dim3, no i don't think so, but maybe.
Blender, when it works yes..even to PocketPC and many formats.
T3D/iGame3D is cross platform, ready for the PC as soon as you finish your game. Antack! was made with T3D, about 32,000 Mac downloads and about 50,000 PC downloads, it has also been distributed on CD's by various people.


Can I use a program like cinema 4D or lightwave to model then import them to the blender game engine? Don't know, that would be a question for Blender people. I don't have much use for Blender, as i stated above no time to use other people's stuff...if I could just clone me....
Blender is a full featured 3D application, so it probably has some import modes to pull other data and convert for use with Blender games. I just tried the app, as usual I couldn't figure out what I was doing with it...where did that book go, around here somewhere. There are docs for it on their site.

Do the created games open in a full screen window? [/B][/QUOTE] dim3: yes
Blender had windowed games last I tried them, as well as internet browser games with a plugin, it probably had a full screen mode too.
T3D/iGame3d games open in full screen as well.

[Carlos Camacho]

igame3d,
coudl you do me a favor? Could you summarize this thread with your info and add it to the FAQ? I know it will be asked again and again if we don't have it in there. (Then again, even if we do, it still will be asked. :) )

[igame3d]

Whoo boy! What a task. I'll give it a go.
But where to begin........?

Thinking.....
http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/thinking.jpg

[igame3d]

Uh Carlos, I have no idea what I'm doing in that Wiki thing.
Suddenly I'm in a position to ask more questions than snickrep has come up with.

This is going to take some time to figure this thing out.
I've never even read the FAQ.
Much less posted to a Wiki.

Ok its not as hard as it looks, I just fixed someone's typo.

But still I'm going to need some guidance with this.

Where should I be posting, and specifically what should I be posting? I assume I leave out all the dim3 and blender stuff, I'm not an expert with what they've got going on.

I'm going to Summarize this thread and then email you (I have to anyway about my diary, Griggs has not responded). Then we can put all this information somewhere.

[Mars_999]

Hold on. If you have never programmed before you have a long road ahead of you. So be patient or else you will become insane and go off the deep end! :p If you plan on making games and don't want to make them for the PC and/or Linux I would suggest ObjC but if you plan on making it cross platform then use C/C++/Java. You will need to learn a language first and then move into learning OpenGL. Then after that many of things like AI, Pathfinding, Physics, ect... I myself started out learning C++ and love it. Yes it is very complex compared to other languages. I wouldn't suggest it as a beginners language but thats my opinion. Its extremely powerful but thats what I wanted so I went with C++. I know Java also and if you're not worried about absolute speed than Java is nice to program in due to it is OOP and has garabage collection. You can use OpenGL with Java now to. OpenGL is going to be based off C. So I would suggest you learn C and then OpenGL and if you like C, if you decided to use Cocoa you will be a step ahead because you can use C with ObjC in Cocoa. I think all of this is in the FAQ! But you might want to check out Realbasic or Metal? They are easier to learn, and look like good languages for beginners to get their feet wet with.

[igame3d]

Mars you just confused me!
This poor kid's head probably just exploded, now his iMac 800 is covered in blood and brains.

I think the main problem with the FAQ is that its just an extension of a cold machine (OSC :lol: ) . You click, you read, and you are still all alone with questions, alone with a brain swimming with all FAQ knowledge, yet you don't know where to really begin or where you stand in the scheme of things.

Kind of like programming languages, you read, you read, you type, you get error messages, you wimper and cry, kick the dog, throw a rock at the neighbors house try to figure out how and where you went wrong :
"This game programming book is for DirectX?!?!?!"

Neither the FAQ or programming languages are like dim3 or iGame3D where you crack open an app, try to be creative with some eye candy to please the senses until you hit a roadblock then go "what the foo!!", bother the usergroup or dev with questions, get an answer, go back to work, and show your friends and family "look I'm a developer, I'm a super genius, that fortune spent on games, movies and comic books is going to pay off!!"

Just maybe, but probably not, you read the read me, discover exactly how a thing is supposed to be done and then make magic happen.

That is one of the greatest prejudices at this site, all the coders think all people who sign up here are of the mind to code. A hazard of any proffession I guess, as a designer I thought it was simple for anyone to just get photoshop and quarkxpress and express themselves...boy was I wrong, even paid designers can't or are not willing to learn to do it.

Well, for the past year (almost to the date), of developing a game dev application I have learned very little actual programming. Not that I haven't tried mind you, but I hit roablocks like crazy math in the middle of a game dev book, and thats it, down the book goes, back to my game engine and editor I go. If I could do that math I'd be building a death ray, time machine or potato fusion device instead :)

Believe me I hit crazy math in iGame3D too: recursive polygon hallway drawing routine scripts..I thought my brilliant idea would be Oooh so easy. 6 days to get it right!
After that it was, Hey I'll make a random 3D maze drawing routine...so perfect, until backface culling kicks in..eeegad!
another 3 days, I had to give up, brain lock. Man I wish I had that math skill (and the death ray).

Carlos where are you? I made a pot of coffee and can't get focused on this wiki thing. Email me or something...
Big trouble with copy and paste out of the forums, I have double spaced lines and a ton of extra crud to weed through just to see what I'm doing..

[snickrep]

Fine I will make my questions shorter for ya.

Can I add 3D movie clips, make games for both mac & PC, and title menus for game engines like Dim3, Blender, and T3D? Would it make sense to make models in meshwork,lightwave, or cinema 4D and then import them into blender?

[igame3d]

I think I have already answered all those questions.
Read again from your last bit of questions yesterday, if I missed something let me know.

Would it make sense to make models in meshwork,lightwave, or cinema 4D and then import them into blender?
99.9% of your Blender questions must be asked at Blender websites.

[snickrep]

you missed the



Can I add 3D movie clips, make games for both mac & PC, and title menus for game engines like Dim3 and T3D?

[OneSadCookie]

iGame3D answered all those questions on the previous page.

[snickrep]

oops my bad. I am interested in working with T3D. What kind of game examples will I be working with? Same goes for dim3.

[igame3d]

Start with Antack (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/AntackMac.sit)
Thats the original T3D production.
there is a newer but buggy beta
here (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/FileSharing1.html)
That should be updated again by the weekend.
It also has an updated ..but now outdated T3D editor.
Also Grab the T3D_for_Meshwork.sit at that link, a bunch of models are in there to mess around with.
As well as the read me file! Read it well.


The current iGame3D Lite and self running player are broken, we won't be doing anything about that until Tobi is done with his math exams. The Pro version is mostly working, useable mostly. But get started with whats available, and then we'll see where you go from there.

I'll open an iGame3D thread under the Game Design Discussion area shortly. Post all questions there.

all dim3 questions should be posted to the dim3 Discussion thread.

[snickrep]

any other examples? Do I have to work with examples or can I program?

[AJ Infinity]

Dammit, this is getting annoying. INSTALL THE DEVELOPER TOOLS, AND GET SOME COCOA AND OPENGL TUTORIALS. Come back to the forums with any other questions after that (eg: "What's a for() loop?", "What's glBlendFunc for?", "Interface Builder help.", "Vertexes not appearing", "Terragen algorithm not working", "How do I load an OBJ?", etc)

:D

Actually, stick with T3D/dim3 for now.

[snickrep]

Man, I am so sorry. I hate being that annoying poster. I gotta stop doing this. But right now I am at school(boarding school) and on a PC. I just want to ask one final question. What game engine do I use if I learn COCOA. Are there any good game programming books all about COCOA? What is programing for opengl like?

[AJ Infinity]

Ah, it's ok. I'm just kinda not in a good mood right now because I got beat in a multiplayer game (note: It wasn't Warcraft 3). Looking at my post it appears as if I was kinda harsh.

Anyway, I actually recommend sticking with T3D/dim3 for now and move on to cocoa, esp. if you want to make a 3D game easily.

[Mars_999]

Originally posted by snickrep
Man, I am so sorry. I hate being that annoying poster. I gotta stop doing this. But right now I am at school(boarding school) and on a PC. I just want to ask one final question. What game engine do I use if I learn COCOA. Are there any good game programming books all about COCOA? What is programing for opengl like?

I think I answered these questions already in my post!

Get these books and call back once you need help

1. "The Complete Reference C" by Herb Schildt
2. "OpenGL Red Book"
3. "Cocoa Programming for OSX"
4. "OpenGL game programming" PC based but still good to use on the Mac

[igame3d]

:mad: This is where I got out the ugly stick, and beat AJ into being a nice boy again. :mad:

:D

[Mars_999]

Calm down everyone! No need to get angry at everyone here. Yes AJ is out of line getting hostile and newbies need to read a little closer to what is being said to them. So both parties are at fault. "Now I duck and run" :ninja:

[AJ Infinity]

is this
iHaveNoPatience.com?

LOL :D :D :blush:

>Yes AJ is out of line getting hostile
Sorry for getting out of line then. Didn't think about my answer until I reread my post.

>just your endless repetitive opinions.
I sense a fight.

[snickrep]

ahhhhh can someone answer my questions now? :D

[Mars_999]

Originally posted by snickrep
ahhhhh can someone answer my questions now? :D

That's it "Mars gets out his large beating stick and whacks on snickrep until he is beatin into submission!" :D :p

[Najdorf]

hey, you' ll get banned if you continue this way :lol:

[snickrep]

who me? FOr just asking questions? Isn't that was message boards are for?

[Mars_999]

Originally posted by snickrep
who me? FOr just asking questions? Isn't that was message boards are for?

He is joking! See the laughing smilely! :ohmy:

[Najdorf]

No I' m not! :mad:


[See the mad smiley!:lol:]

[Mars_999]

Muhahahhh :p

[igame3d]

Originally posted by AJ Infinity
I sense a fight.

Sorry, you're a minor, I'll have to beat up your father to make it a fair and slightly less illegal battle.

Snickrep you are embarking on a long journey that can not be rushed. The skills of game development require dedication to certain aspects of the medium as a starting point, then you grow from that point after somewhat mastering a skill. If you reach for too much at once you will end up frustrated.

I suggest you lurk and use the forum search functions here intensely until you get home. Always remember google.com is your friend.
Every question you have search it at google.com:
Mac C tutorial
Mac C++ tuturial
OpenGL tutorial
Mac Game Engine
etc
Then before you blow $50 on a book, you can have some clue as to what you are getting into.

Before you have questions than can only be briefly answered here, you can have some more indepth material too look at and reference.

Download source code from here, look at it, does it look like something you want to fill your head with?

Since you're on a PC you want to download
AntackWin (http://homepage.mac.com/igame3d/AntackWin.zip)
then you can see what you're going to get into with T3D/iGame3D.

[AJ Infinity]

I never usually handle newbies this way. Actually, like I said, I just wasn't in a good mood.

>I'll have to beat up your father
WHOA!! That's like suicide, dude!

[igame3d]

:bored: