How much a programmer should be paid for a a shareware game?

[karolos]

Hi!

I am not sure if the title is clear enought to pay attention :P

So here it is my subject.

If I want to produce a shareware game and I don't have the competences to program it but for design and story (I am a professionnal illustrator), how much could cost to hire a programmer to code it?

Let say I want to make some hortizontal scrolling game with puzzles and actions (Obb's World or example)?

Is to paid a programmer make it more concerned about the project or make a deal about a pourcentage of results? How to manage the updates and the technical support?

If some people have experience about it, please I will be very glad to know it

tx

[KittyMac]

Greetings,

Its good of you to ask, instead of like most people and just ask outright for programmers and not they are going to do none of the work :)

how much could cost to hire a programmer to code it?

This is tricky and depends on how serious you are and how well you present yourself to the programmer. A programmer who is excited about your game and knows that you are a trust worthy individual will probably do it only for a royalty fee for the final product. It is very hard to excite people with just an idea, and it is also very hard to garner trust without past experience to back you up. Therefor, you can pay some kind of advance fee/milestone payments to encourage people that you mean business. Price would vary depending upon the difficulty of your title and the competence of the programmer.

Best thing you can do know is you try and attract someone. You do this by providing as much information about your future title as possible, along with concept art and design document. Most programmers around here won't commit to a project unless they know you're willing to commit the time to it. A thorough design doc and concept art goes a long way.

Cheers,
Rocco

[codemattic]

Originally posted by karolos
If I want to produce a shareware game and I don't have the competences to program it but for design and story (I am a professionnal illustrator), how much could cost to hire a programmer to code it?

My suggestion is to start on the design work. Create lots of characters and levels and artwork. Post again asking for programmers - provide a link to some of your artwork. To any serious contacts you get - give a link to a more complete example of what you are designing. Make sure they provide you with links to stuff they've programmed. Then come to some agreement on splitting the future profits - you are both investing your time/sweat equity in the project - you are both taking a risk.

Good Luck karolos!!!
Codemattic

[karolos]

Thanks a lot for the comments. In fact I was thinking to make first the design document and of course the story. I had already started few days ago.

About this step, do you known good address or advices about the ways to organise a design game? What kind of documents should I make to present for people when I have "fixe" the core of the design

Cheers

[diordna]

The problem about programmers is that we often hold artists and designers below ourselves. In uDG it is usually the programmer who leads the team, because it is a programming contest. Programmers in smaller projects hold bigger roles than programmers in companies, because there are fewer of them and you really really need them. Programmers (think they) can live without artists and designers sometimes. So be willing to pay good royalties.

[RedMarbleGames]

Karolos -- I, for one, would love to see your ideas and design document (and would be happy to sign an NDA first if you like). I run Red Marble Games, http://www.redmarblegames.com, which so far has concentrated on ports from Windows, but I'd be interested in working on an original title -- which could be cross-platform. If you're interested, send me an email (most anything @redmarblegames.com will work).

Mark Batten
Red Marble Games
http://www.redmarblegames.com

[karolos]

Hi

For now, I am working on it and it will take few weeks since I want to make something original and very clear about it.

At now, the core story is ready and need lot of details ( I will finish the first level for the game design document), the design of the heroe is on a good way and some backgrounds design also. When I will find the right way for an original design I will be back :-)

Thanks!

[Joseph Duchesne]

I think if you're lucky you could get a programmer for between 45-65% of the game income + maybe a 100$ start bonus in the beginning just to show that you're serious. Good luck and I'd love to see some concept art ;)

[GoodDoug]

Here's what I believe will work for you:

You need to show the prospective programmer that you have talent and good ideas - do that with a good design dic and some great illustrations/assets

You need to show the prospective programmer that you are serious about the project - offer an up front "advance." How much is anyone's guess, and would be a good topic of discussion. Also, make sure that you devise some sort of official contract with the programmer, this protects both you and the programmer. A payment schedule would be good as well (the first $xxx at first playable, the next $xxx when all levels are loaded and $xxx when it is deemed shippable) as this protects you and motivates the programmer

You need to offer the prospective programmer a fair deal - offering a small percentage of the gross sales, or a larger percentage of the net profits attributable to the game.

You need to define from the very beginning how much say the programmer has in the creative direction of the game (from "you do what I tell you to do" to "we'll be partners in the creative process")

Good luck!

[karolos]

Yes, one point was quite intriguing about contract. I am european (french living in Finland). So how a contract could be work if the programmer is american or japanese for example? How could be it legal, even inside Europe?

About contract, people making sharewares.. are they all made their own company or are they freelance? Is a legal statut (concerning state taxes for example) that interest me and I believe some people here also.

If you can make some light about this legal things?

[RedMarbleGames]

I'm a lawyer as well as a developer, so I write my own contracts. I don't know if there are unusual requirements of Finnish law -- I know some countries do have unusual tax rules (there was a thread on the Dexterity forums about that recently, involving French law). Tax questions aside, it's not hard to draft a contract; but when doing international deals, you just want to be clear about which country's law will apply to the agreement, and you may want to specify that any disputes will be brought in a certain location. Which location, of course, is subject to negotiation ... ;)

[codemattic]

Originally posted by RedMarbleGames
Karolos -- I, for one, would love to see your ideas and design document (and would be happy to sign an NDA first if you like). I run Red Marble Games, http://www.redmarblegames.com,

Im a huge Bugatron fan!

karolos - When you finally get your design examples laid out - I suggest taking the RMG offer seriously - you will find someone to help you with both programming and distribution.

Good luck to both,
Codemattic

[karolos]

Hello!

Just few words about the game project. It is going well in my opinion, the story is alsmost written and divided and levels (two are almost designed with all the informations). The design is in a good way, better than I have expect in the beginning.

I hope to show you something soon

:rolleyes:

[karolos]

Hi guys

Just an annoncement that I have post a message in "WANTED/HELP" section. May be it is time now to look someone helping to make this project real :wow:

Karolos

[Fenris]

I am currently contracted for a platformer. My experience is that money up front is an incredible incentive. It doesn't have to be much (I got $150 in my first payment, but I would have settled for $30), but just checking out cold hard cash for something puts everything in perspective, and extreme pressure on the coder.

My contractor presented me with a finished concept, some art, and a plan (which went to hell, incidentally). That also included a payment schedule, where dates/milestones/payments were listed. To keep a rambling short, money up front is key. Percentages are OK, but I would somehow prefer $100 up front than 90% of the royalties. If you want to get the inside scoop on how to lure a programmer, Casey/proratta here on the board knows how. ;)

[Leisure Suit Lurie]

Programmers should be treated like Indentured Servants. Offer him passage to America, in exchange for which he will code all your games for 12 years. Room and board optional.