uDG 2004: Snowball

[aaronsullivan]

I need to test for compatibility problems for my uDevGame entry Snowball. If you're interested in giving feedback, please try this version out. There is not much to do but roll around the environment, spit, and rotate the isometric view, but I'd appreciate a test. It's a small download at 2.3MB.
Click here to download Snowball (http://homepage.mac.com/aaronsullivan/projects/snowball_mac.zip)
The readme explains the controls:
movement:
A W
x
S D
spacebar spits
arrow keys zoom in and out and rotate the isometric view.
Mute button mutes dodgy early draft music

I'm especially interested in crashes and wierd behavior, but I'll take gameplay comments and framerate issues as well. :) (Major optimizations have yet to be done :p )

If you're interested in the progress of the game:
Click here to go to the Snowball website. (http://homepage.mac.com/aaronsullivan/projects/snowball.html)

[skyhawk]

I absolutely love the visuals. Keep up the good work. Still needs some gameplay ;)

[JustinFic]

Everything works fine for me. No framerate issues on a 1.3 GHz Albook, even on max resolution.

Very polished so far- the jingle bells in the music are a nice touch. The graphics make me want to fire up Final Fantasy Tactics again :)

I have a beef with the ramps though- approaching the bottom of a ramp from the side blocks me when it seems it shouldn't. (There's that hole between two ramps that looks twice as big as me that I can't get through.) Also, approaching from the front a half tile off to either side blocks me when it definitely shouldn't.

[aaronsullivan]

Great to hear the technical stuff.
The ramp issue is interesting. At this point it looks really odd if you move into the corner of the ramp... you sort of overlap it. It's especially bad is you are "fat" because you roll up all the snow and don't spit. When you are at the center and at the bottom it is more forgiving because it looks like you are pressed into the ramp.

It IS annoying and unexpected that you can't move the way you say. I'll have to revisit that and weigh the options.

You can do it, too:
Inside the app package in the resources folder there is a file called "ramp.mmp" (movement map.) Use a text editor (not TextEdit) to change the following "blocked" lines to "free"
below "1 0 0 w"
below "-1 0 0 e"
below "-1 0 0 n"
below "1 0 0 n"

Then just play again and you should be able to move as you expected.

See what you think.

[aaronsullivan]

Thanks, Skyhawk! Missed your post before. (stayed up late last night :bored: )

Yeah, the gameplay. I'm deciding exactly what I need to make a full game out of this in time for the deadline. As always things need to be cut at the last minute. I'm hoping (irrationally) that there won't be too many technical issues so I can add as much as possible. It's definitely time vs. features at this point.

[aaronsullivan]

I forgot to mention: Please test the application menu commands:
About Snowball, Hide Snowball, Hide others, Show all
And then minimize in the Windows menu.

it's the first time I've gotten these to work in an SDL app and it's possible there is an issue in 10.2. (If you are interested in how, click here. (http://www.idevgames.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70471&postcount=25))

[JustinFic]

Inside the app package in the resources folder there is a file called "ramp.mmp" (movement map.) Use a text editor (not TextEdit) to change the following "blocked" lines to "free"
below "1 0 0 w"
below "-1 0 0 e"
below "-1 0 0 n"
below "1 0 0 n"

Then just play again and you should be able to move as you expected.

See what you think.

This works much better to me. It does look a little odd when the edge of the ramp seems to dig into the snowball, but it's a lot less frustrating to move around. Since he's a snowball you can just say he's wrapping around the ramp.

Also, on the lines
below "-1 0 0 n"
below "1 0 0 n"

instead of "free" I changed it to "rampUp". This allows me to move exactly how I want. Even if you don't open up the e and w movements these should definitely stay at rampUp. Try those values and go up a ramp not-quite-straight-on.

EDIT: Whoops. Using those values, if you try to go up the small ramp not-quite-straight-on you fall through the floor.

And hiding/minimizing/about work fine, but minimizing and bringing up the about box cause your main window to go all white. (KDrC has the same problem- if you figure it out definitely let us know :) )

[aaronsullivan]

The turning white thing, I'm going to check out... but I think it's partly what I have it do when the game pauses... the dock thing I am hoping for someone else to help with (posted in a arekkusu's thread and also on the SDL newsgroup. )

For gameplay reasons I actually want to keep you from going up the ramp on the edges. It will force you to be in the center (and being in the center will be important for some enemies.)

I am leaning towards keeping the freedom to move onto the bottom corners of the ramp though. I'm going to keep that way for awhile and see how it effects gameplay.

Another thought. Was there any confusion with the control scheme? Did A and W do what you expected them to? S and D? That's sort of a first impression thing. How about after rotating the camera?

The plan is to allow total customization of controls (including joysticks/control pads and maybe even mouse) but I don't think it will make the deadline :( so it's important that the default controls feel pretty natural.

[DavidJJ]

Nice look, my son's going to love it. Three comments ...

1. The arrows that rotate the isometric view seem to do it in 90 degree increments then stop, even if you continually hold down the keys. Is this preferable to either: a) continually rotating while the key is held down, or b) turning 90 degrees, pausing briefly, then if the key is still held down rotate another 90 in that same direction, and repeat?

2. The "jerky" screen effect when bumping into a wall (that you obviously can't pass through) is, for these old eyes, slightly annoying. Can you make the effect only a single jerk rather than the repeated (three or four?) it currently is? Or perhaps make a little "Boop!" sound instead of the jerky scren movement?

3. At some points when the snowball is very close to the edge of a tile that it looks like it should fall, but it stays on the edge. I guess it's a perspective thing/part of the code that calculates the centre of the ball? Not annoying or anything, just odd in a way. I can send a screen shot if you like.

Just thought I'd toss these out. Very nice work so far!

PS. I'm guessing you're not supposed to be able to go right underneath the ground plane? :blink:

[DavidJJ]

Was there any confusion with the control scheme? Did A and W do what you expected them to? S and D? That's sort of a first impression thing. How about after rotating the camera?

I was fine with it. Very natural feel.

When you do the "About" window, the contents of the main game window disappear, is this intended?

[aaronsullivan]

The screen turning white when the about box is now fixed. It was due to some old code from SpaceBarrage in which a new "Paused" screen comes up when the window loses focus (and hides the game so you can't exploit the pause option to give yourself more time to think. :) )

1. The arrows that rotate the isometric view seem to do it in 90 degree increments then stop.
I think when there is a game, people will usually do one rotation at a time, reorient themselves and then rotate again, but I don't see any reason not to let it rotate again if you hold it down. I'll work on that.
2. The "jerky" screen effect when bumping into a wall
Good point. If you let go fast enough it IS only one "jerk", but I think if you continue to hold the button down he shouldn't keep at it.
3. at some points when the snowball is very close to the edge of a tile that it looks like it should fall
This could be a subjective thing. I'd actually like to see a screenshot because I'm wondering if the coordinates drift on the snowball. They shouldn't, but... What are your computer specs, btw?
I'm guessing you're not supposed to be able to go right underneath the ground plane?
Okay, does this mean you have gotten off of the main area and gone underneath the ground plane? If so, there is almost positively some coordinate drift on the snowball that may be related to frame rate and I'll have to fix that! A screenshot of this might be nice too. Easier than words!

[DavidJJ]

This could be a subjective thing. I'd actually like to see a screenshot because I'm wondering if the coordinates drift on the snowball. They shouldn't, but... What are your computer specs, btw?

Okay, does this mean you have gotten off of the main area and gone underneath the ground plane? If so, there is almost positively some coordinate drift on the snowball that may be related to frame rate and I'll have to fix that! A screenshot of this might be nice too. Easier than words!

I was able to go below the ground plane simply by holding the arrow key to zoom in and continually hold it (or repeatedly tap it). It zooms in and down then past the ground plane so that you're suddenly switched around to look upwards. I have a screen of that too. The snowball itself stays above the ground plane, just the camera goes below the plane (maybe should've clarified that).

Screenshots below in another post.

[ThemsAllTook]

If so, there is almost positively some coordinate drift on the snowball that may be related to frame rate and I'll have to fix that!

Are you doing time-based physics using the interval system (where changes in position, etc. are divided or multiplied by a value computed by the amount of time passed since the last frame)? I've found this system to be rather problematic, and as anyone who hangs around the #idevgames IRC channel knows, there's a different approach I've been advocating. :)

Basically, what you do is keep track of the interval since the last time the scene was rendered, as before, but instead of what you're doing, run your physics routines an appropriate number of times to catch up with an expected constant speed. It's very stable, and gives identical results no matter what the frame rate.

Sample code here: http://www.nomorepasting.com/paste.php?pasteID=20063
(Ignore LEVEL_EDITOR_PHYSICS_INTERVAL; I had forgotten to change that constant to PHYSICS_INTERVAL when I copied this out of my code.)

Alex Diener

[DavidJJ]

How do you want the screenshots ... posted here or emailed? I'll crop them down to size and send/post them as JPGs.

I was able to go below the ground plane simply by holding the arrow key to zoom in and continually hold it (or repeatedly tap it). It zooms in and down then past the ground plane so that you're suddenly switched around to look upwards. I have a screen of that too.

Here they are ...

http://www.artspin.com/thru_ground_close.jpg

http://www.artspin.com/thru_ground_far.jpg

http://www.artspin.com/goingtofall_1.jpg

http://www.artspin.com/goingtofall_2.jpg

[aaronsullivan]

Screenshots:
Okay, good.
I thought you meant the SNOWBALL was going under the ground plane. I will eventually disable the zoom below the ground plane. I may tweak the different zoom levels, too, but it will be based on the average level size, which is yet to be determined. :)

Also, rolling along the edge is currently allowed and him looking like he should fall off is, as I suspected, just a subjective thing. It looks worse the more fat he is. If and when I implement a shadow it should help with the optical illusion that makes it hard to determine exactly where he is in those cases.

Thanks for the effort in posting those!

ThemsAllTook: The physics in this game are fake. :) It force stops things at the correct area because this is essentially a tile based puzzle game (just with fluid motion.) There IS a problem right now in my falling code that doesn't effect gameplay but does look a bit weird on a slow frame rate. I was just panicking about cooridinate drift before because of how I was interpreting DavidJJ's descriptions.

However, I really like that code. It makes a lot of sense to manage things that way and is more precise than what I've used in the past. I might even use it in Snowball.

[skyhawk]

here's stuff my friend is noting:
him:
takes 3 hands to control
music is very loud
me:
I do it with 2 hands
arrow keys and wasd
him:
but that's not what it says
and there's no such thing as wasd
theres mouse, arrows, and space
report bugs plz
doesn't change direction while moving
walls need thickness, and should look different on the outside
(clipping across a wall during rotation is disorienting)
movement clipping fucks up while moving parallel to an edge you're partway over
needs key repeat on zoom

[aaronsullivan]

Thanks for the feedback!

skyhawk's friend: music is too loud

You know, I keep forgetting to fix that. Thanks!

skyhawk's friend: takes 3 hands to control

It will only take one when I add rotation and zoom buttons at the bottom... but there will be the space bar. Perhaps your friend doesn't realize that you don't need to use aswd to move, but he can use the mouse exclusively? If you have a 2 button scroll wheel mouse, the only thing you can't do without the keyboard, currently, is rotate the camera.

Did you guys use the version I posted at 3 am this morning? (about 10 hours ago.) Just curious, because it has tutorial messages on the first few levels. (Although the 2 button mouse controls are mentioned nowhere but here, currently.)

skyhawk:doesn't change direction while moving

What doesn't change direction while moving? The snowball? It's not a freeform movment. It's tile based. See below.

skyhawk:walls need thickness, and should look different on the outside

Sort of a cross section? Good idea.

skyhawk:movement clipping f***s up while moving parallel to an edge you're partway over

Not sure what you mean. You can't stand halfway on an edge. You roll off. This is basically a tile based puzzle game. You can either be on a square or halfway between. You can NOT stand halfway on an edge. Unfortunately, it might feel weird at first, but it's a primary game mechanic. There are future elements that will require it.

There should be another update in about 3 hours.

[skyhawk]

There should be another update in about 3 hours.
despite all his negative feedback, he and I really loved your game.... though he is much better at it than I

[MarkJ]

I think you've got a _great_ game here, and I highly encourage you to continue working on it after the contest. My main problem is with the controls. Since the view is isometric, wasd doesn't make much sense. WESD makes more sense since the S and E are diagonal.

For the contest, this game is definitely getting high marks from me. The moment I realized I could roll into a bigger ball to push two blocks, I was like "that's cool."

Other features I'd like to see:
-Start playing at different levels
-Key Configuration
-Some sort of scoring for each level? Quickest time? Most efficient?
-Better Menu Screen graphics

Again, Snowball is a pleasant surprise.

[skyhawk]

heh, in the later levels... when there is a lot to roll around in, he gets so cute and puffy!

BIG HINT! MARKET PLUSHIES OF ROLLO!

[aaronsullivan]

Oh, man, I so want a plushy of Rollo now! What a great idea. :D

MarkJ, thanks for the kind words. I have many more snow related ideas that haven't made it into the game yet. Have you all tried spitting snowballs yet? (spacebar) They don't do much yet...

WESD is cool, but I thought most people are used to using AWSD for things and if you tilt your left hand sideways while you play... ;). A key configuration screen is, of course, the best option here.

I have made some progress in making it playable by mouse only (there are now camera controls at the bottom of the screen.) If you have a two button scroll wheel mouse, everything can be controlled by the mouse without even the onscreen buttons (except for rotating!)

Scoring... Competition is good. I currently like the go-at-your-own-zen-pace thing right now. As a way to gloat, you can record replays. It's not opened up for players yet, but the implementation would be to save one replay on each level. Maybe I could simply save the replay if the current time record is beaten. Hmm...

I'm thinking of grouping stages in sets of 3 and when you complete all 3 you unlock them (you can play them at any time.)

Click here for an updated version (http://www.udevgames.com/downloads/?dl=16)
Hint: stay at the Title screen for a little while.

If you have a very fast computer and a big screen, try playing fullscreen in a very high resolution, it holds up suprisingly well. It makes me wish my mac was faster (porting to PC...)

[skyhawk]

If you have a very fast computer and a big screen, try playing fullscreen in a very high resolution, it holds up suprisingly well. It makes me wish my mac was faster (porting to PC...)
I don't play it any other way... it looks just astonishing :love:

EDIT: EEP! The snow is gone from the ramps in level 6!

[MarkJ]

Another thing I'd like to see added is some sort of visual border around the movable blocks. With all the white on white on white, it gets hard to count them and differentiate between ground and block

[quartex]

This is a great game. I love the graphics and the music is very soothing. Does shooting snowballs do anything right now? Does shooting snowballs make you get smaller eventually? If there's a limited amount, having a counter or a bar on the screen to tell you have many you have left might be useful. But I guess they aren't that important.

Very cute graphics. Nice level layout. It reminds me of sobokan, or other games where you push crates around to get to an exit. The idea of being able to unlock sets of levels and thus be able to skip ahead sounds like a very good one.

[aaronsullivan]

I agree with the blocks being difficult to distinguish from the snow. When I was throwing the graphics together for the blocks I was having difficulty with their look and it was taking too much time. So, that dark blue shadow on the bottom is as far as I got. I may go for a complete redesign on those...

Shooting snowballs uses up your snow and shrinks you. It would be nice to make a visual hint on a couple of things related to picking up and shooting snow... maybe a slightly larger bump (or drop) in size at the different important sizes. Hmm...

Great to hear this feedback. I'm excited to add these features and more, and I really want to work on it right now, but I'm running on 3 and a half hours of sleep. :) There's a good chance I will update again tomorrow evening. :D

Is the intro choppy for anyone out there?

EDIT: Just wanted to add that it has been so refreshing, so far, to have posts about gameplay rather than about the crashing bugs at the start up screen I had for Space Barrage! (cue posts about crashes.)

[Josh]

The mouse coordinates are messed up in windowed mode on Mac OS X 10.2.8.
Controls really need to be customizable.
It is frustrating to only be able to see the ramps from certain angles.

The graphics are awesome! Good game, once the mouse bug is fixed and I can set my own controls!

[aaronsullivan]

mouse coordinates: Arg! I thought that was in the past! Thanks for letting me know, I'll see what I can do, but it's an SDL thing. :/

The ramp thing: Usually, by level design, the ramps should not obscured from the sides, the one maze map is intentionally sneaky that way, however. ;)

Well, now that the mouse bug is in there, the customized controls just jumped up a notch in priority, too.

[Josh]

mouse coordinates: Arg! I thought that was in the past! Thanks for letting me know, I'll see what I can do, but it's an SDL thing. :/I seem to recall Derek (lightbringer) having this problem. You may ask him how he fixed it.

[aaronsullivan]

I have no easy solution to that mouse coordinate problem yet, and Lightbringer hasn't responded to my email, yet. :/

The current CVS version of SDL is broken (needs coreaudio_bootstrap or something) so I'm considering starting in Fullscreen.

Opinions on this? Does it annoy you guys when a game starts fullscreen? Or is it okay as long as the options screen lets you switch to windowed mode? I'm going to do it right away anyway as a temporary fix because I can't have people downloading it and not being able to play! (The big downside is that it will start in 800x600 which is just not the best option for everyone.)

Thanks for opinions in advance. ;)

[ThemsAllTook]

Does it annoy you guys when a game starts fullscreen?

This is one of my pet peeves. In my opinion, a game should NEVER take over the screen without asking first. A dialog at startup is fine, as is having the game start in a window and having a fullscreen option in preferences. Full screen mode without changing the resolution is not as bad.

But maybe that's just me...

Alex Diener

[aaronsullivan]

Frankly, I don't like it either. :/ Only, the alternative is a game that you can't start because the mouse looks like it's pointing at the menu options but the game is reading it at vertically reversed. (which happens for those with 10.2 in windowed mode!) I think it's a good temporary trade off until I fix SDL's problem.

[Josh]

Couldn't you check the user's OS version and then reverse the mouse coordinates accordingly? It's a bit hacky, but that seems like the best option in my mind.

[aaronsullivan]

It's something I plan on fixing, and I may need to go that route (I've even looked into it some) but I just wanted to make sure people weren't downloading it and the standard behavior was that you couldn't click on the start button!

Incidentally, there are a couple small changes besides starting in fullscreen now. Anyone who is interested could download it again. It's just making the outside walls look thicker and more like you are seeing a cross section. It's not perfect, but I can't take it the extra mile yet. Other priorities. Also, there is a fade in and out when transitioning from stage to stage.

[resuna]

First comment. The documentation being in PDF means I had to retype the rather long URL in the documentation fil eto get here. How about making it plain text or RTF?

Second, getting to the meat of the problem...

Mac OS X 10.2.8 on a G4/466 with Radeon 7000 PCI.

**********

Date/Time: 2004-11-14 17:23:33 -0600
OS Version: 10.2.8 (Build 6R73)
Host: bastard.in.taronga.com

Command: Snowball
PID: 9388

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x009d2344

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x0004bfac in _ZNSs4_Rep9_S_createEmRKSaIcE
#1 0x00049960 in _ZNSs9_M_mutateEmmm
#2 0x00049a58 in _ZNSs12_M_leak_hardEv
#3 0x0001adc8 in _ZN9sn_ButtonC4Ev
#4 0x0003c420 in _ZN14sn_Phase_TitleC4EP7sn_Game
#5 0x00031618 in SDL_main
#6 0x00038a18 in -[SDLMain applicationDidFinishLaunching:]
#7 0x97dfab40 in _nsNotificationCenterCallBack
#8 0x901684c4 in _postNotification
#9 0x90165bd8 in _CFNotificationCenterPostLocalNotification
#10 0x9318a720 in -[NSApplication _sendFinishLaunchingNotification]
#11 0x93161624 in _requiredAEEventHandler
#12 0x91b56570 in _Z20aeDispatchAppleEventPK6AEDescPS_mPh
#13 0x91b590cc in _Z25dispatchEventAndSendReplyPK6AEDescPS_
#14 0x91b56478 in aeProcessAppleEvent
#15 0x96a83778 in AEProcessAppleEvent
#16 0x9308e0a8 in _DPSNextEvent
#17 0x930a0158 in -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:]
#18 0x930b1d88 in -[NSApplication run]
#19 0x0003903c in main
#20 0x00009f70 in _start (crt.c:267)
#21 0x8fe190f4 in _dyld_start

Thread 1:
#0 0x90073ba8 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005ed0 in mach_msg
#2 0xc000a954 in __ape_internal
#3 0xc0001328 in __ape_agent
#4 0x90020c28 in _pthread_body

Thread 2:
#0 0x90073ba8 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005ed0 in mach_msg
#2 0x901489c0 in __CFRunLoopRun
#3 0x90180f4c in CFRunLoopRunSpecific
#4 0x94652f80 in _ZN10HALRunLoop9OwnThreadEPv
#5 0x946591e0 in _ZN9CAPThread5EntryEPS_
#6 0x90020c28 in _pthread_body

Thread 3:
#0 0x90042588 in semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap
#1 0x9003e7b4 in _pthread_cond_wait
#2 0x946444fc in _ZN7CAGuard7WaitForEy
#3 0x94644130 in _ZN7CAGuard9WaitUntilEy
#4 0x94642b20 in _ZN10HPIOThread8WorkLoopEv
#5 0x9465919c in _ZN10HPIOThread11ThreadEntryEPS_
#6 0x946591e0 in _ZN9CAPThread5EntryEPS_
#7 0x90020c28 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x0004bfac srr1: 0x0000d930 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x0004bf94 ctr: 0x9005e1f8 mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x00000000 r1: 0xbfffcd80 r2: 0x000abe38 r3: 0x009d2340
r4: 0x00000000 r5: 0x00000000 r6: 0x00000000 r7: 0x000aa39c
r8: 0x000aa398 r9: 0x00000001 r10: 0x00000002 r11: 0xa00044b0
r12: 0x9005e1f8 r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x0017f624 r17: 0x00000258 r18: 0x00000320 r19: 0x00000000
r20: 0x001859a0 r21: 0x0d9a1072 r22: 0xa3075950 r23: 0xbffff160
r24: 0x000aa39c r25: 0x00000000 r26: 0x000aa3a0 r27: 0x000abe38
r28: 0x00000004 r29: 0x00000000 r30: 0x009d2340 r31: 0x0004be38

[aaronsullivan]

That's a good point about the read me. I have a friend who is working
on making the read me much better. Not sure what is keeping him. ;)

Thanks for the bug catch! Turns out I had already squashed this bug
but I hadn't released the fixed version yet. Sorry for the
inconvenience.

I didn't realize that bug was crashing macs (it crashed my PC, that's
how I found it), so I uploaded an update.

If you download from the same spot, you'll get the updated copy.

http://homepage.mac.com/aaronsullivan/projects/snowball_mac.zip

If it does not fix the problem for you, please let me know right away!
Otherwise, I hope you enjoy Snowball!

[aaronsullivan]

Mouse fix??? I need help testing something on Mac OS X 10.2.x, please.

use this version of snowball:
http://homepage.mac.com/aaronsullivan/projects/snowball_mac_test.zip

Try it in windowed mode (should be set to window as default.) I used the latest SDL snapshot, and it MAY have fixed the inverted mouse coordinates thing... or not. I need someone to test this and let me know.

Just move the pointer over a menu item and see if it highlights... click the button. If it works, then the problem is solved. Remember, the fix is for people using 10.2 (probably 10.2.8.) so if it works on your 10.3 that knowledge doesn't help me. :D

Thanks in advance!

[Josh]

Still doesn't work in Mac OS X 10.2.8 :(

[aaronsullivan]

Okay, thanks to jabber for helping out with testing Snowball. After communicating with the guy who made previous fixes to SDL's mouse stuff, I was able to make a change to SDL that fixes the mouse inversion problem. The latest version of snowball should have no problems with 10.2.8 and may even work right on 10.0 and 10.1, as well. (If you have access to those versions, I would greatly appreciate a quick test in windowed mode.)

So, we are now back to windowed mode as default and hopefully there will be no additional problems related to the change. Here's the download link:
http://homepage.mac.com/aaronsullivan/projects/snowball_mac.zip

You may want to check out the read me, too. It's much improved. Actual feature additions are still in the works believe it or not, including the PC version.

P.S. This should result in an update to SDL that will fix the problem (for good?) and I'll post the changes needed in the SDL forum for anyone who is interested when all is said and done.

[resuna]

Date/Time: 2004-12-16 07:41:13 -0600
OS Version: 10.2.8 (Build 6R73)
Host: bastard.in.taronga.com

Command: Snowball
PID: 11850

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000006

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x90131c2c in CFRetain
#1 0x901318ec in CFDictionarySetValue
#2 0x0031cecc in APEBundleMessage
#3 0x0031c958 in APEBundleMessage
#4 0x0031d418 in APEBundleMessage
#5 0x0031d58c in APEBundleMessage
#6 0x0031c6c8 in APEBundleMain
#7 0xc0007954 in __ape_internal
#8 0xc000153c in __apeapp
#9 0x002801a0 in 0x2801a0
#10 0x00280038 in 0x280038
#11 0x00280000 in 0x280000
#12 0x937726f0 in CPSRegisterWithServer
#13 0x93012e58 in RegisterProcess
#14 0x93010e04 in INIT_Processes
#15 0x930026a4 in GetCurrentProcess
#16 0x96a16534 in GetSystemUIMode
#17 0x969f91a0 in IsMenuBarVisible
#18 0x93149448 in _NSInitializeAppContext
#19 0x9313ae60 in -[NSApplication init]
#20 0x93139ea0 in +[NSApplication sharedApplication]
#21 0x00039b54 in main
#22 0x00009f70 in _start (crt.c:267)
#23 0x8fe190f4 in _dyld_start

Thread 1:
#0 0x90073ba8 in mach_msg_trap
#1 0x90005ed0 in mach_msg
#2 0xc000a954 in __ape_internal
#3 0xc0001328 in __ape_agent
#4 0x90020c28 in _pthread_body

PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x90131c2c srr1: 0x0200f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x20000000 lr: 0x90131c1c ctr: 0x90131bfd mq: 0x00000000
r0: 0x901318ec r1: 0xbfffec70 r2: 0x44820280 r3: 0x00000000
r4: 0x00000000 r5: 0x00000000 r6: 0xbfffed24 r7: 0x00000000
r8: 0xa0131c1c r9: 0xa0131c1c r10: 0x00000395 r11: 0x00155f40
r12: 0x90131bfd r13: 0x00280f49 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000
r16: 0x001858b0 r17: 0xa3069df4 r18: 0xa3079df4 r19: 0xa36f2328
r20: 0xa36f2328 r21: 0x00000000 r22: 0xbffff2c0 r23: 0xbffff320
r24: 0xa36f17fc r25: 0x00162e40 r26: 0x00000000 r27: 0x00000000
r28: 0x00167e20 r29: 0xa0135644 r30: 0x90131bfd r31: 0x90131c1c

[resuna]

Bah, I didn't mean to submit yet.

Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x90131c2c in CFRetain
#1 0x901318ec in CFDictionarySetValue
#2 0x0031cecc in APEBundleMessage
#3 0x0031c958 in APEBundleMessage
#4 0x0031d418 in APEBundleMessage
#5 0x0031d58c in APEBundleMessage
#6 0x0031c6c8 in APEBundleMain
#7 0xc0007954 in __ape_internal
#8 0xc000153c in __apeapp

Looks like a conflict with Unsanity's APE. I'll see if disabling it for Snowball helps.

[resuna]

That's it. Disabling Metallifizer for Snowball fixed it.

[aaronsullivan]

Good to know, though. I can warn people who use it. Thanks!