Starter Programming Languages

[ededed]

What language should Firestarter learn???

[Carlos Camacho]

Great poll. That "other" thread got really long.
I'm sure people will vote with their hearts (ie what they like) rather than what is best for him though. :D

[GoodDoug]

What! no Esperanto? ;)

[henryj]

Not in my case. I voted for Java because that will give him the best bang for his buck.

Then he can switch to the best language later he wants to write real programs.

[Jeff Binder]

Who voted Brainf*ck? It looks like someone doesn't want Firestarter to like programming!

[Carlos Camacho]

Jeff, do you want me to post the "wiseguy's" name? Perhaps the voter is trying to send the message "it doesn't matter. just pick one and keep at it."

I thought ObjC was Esperanto.

I also will rant that the following are missing...
Pascal
Modula (or whatever they call it now ;) )
Assembly
Squeak

BTW... What is "Malbolge?"
Also, should AppleScript be in that list? Except for the "AppleScript Games" I see on VersionTracker has anyone made a game? Perhaps if AppleScript Studio hooked into the never released QuickTime-based HyperCard than it should be. I think an argument could also be made to place C and C++ in different categories.

I think FutureBasic should have been added to the list. I just got FB 7 along with book and it looks real nice. I also think METAL and TNT are different enought to be put into different categories. Perhaps the poll should be re-done with "What language/IDE should a complete newbie start with?" Since this is a question that is asked every month in the forum. Then we can say 1 out of 3 Mac game programmers recommend... like the aspirin commercials.

Cheers

[w_reade]

I clicked C/C++ but now I've done it I'm suddenly more in favour of Obj-C.
So, one of those 3, anyway.

[OneSadCookie]

BTW... What is "Malbolge?"

A programming language so fiendishly difficult, that so far the only working program written in it does nothing :)

Whoever can write "Hello, World!" using it is a genius!

http://www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/malbolge/index.html

"The" esoteric programming languages site:

http://www.catseye.mb.ca/

[Jeff Binder]

This is apparently a Malbolge hello world program:

b'BA@?>=<;:987654321r`oo,llH('&%
ed"c~w|{z9'Z%utsrqponmlkjihgfedc
ba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDC
BA@#>~~;|z8xwvuts10/.nm+*)i'&%fd
"ba`_^]yxwvXWsrqSonmPNjLKJIHGcba
`BA]\[=YXW:8T654321MLKJ,+GFE'CBA
$">~}|{zy7654ts10/o-,+lj(hgfedc!
~}|^]yxwYutsVTpRQPONMihgfHGcbaC_
^]@>Z<;:987SRQP21MLK-IHG*(D&%$#"
!=<;:zy765u321r/.-,+*)iX&%$dS!~}
|{zy\wvutsUDConmlkjihgfedcFa`B1@
/[ZYXWVUTSRQPONM0K-zHGFEDCBA@?>=
<;{j87x543sb0/.-,+*)('&%$#"!b`O{
zyxZIutsrqSBQ@lkjihgIIdcba`B1j

No, I didn't write it. I haven't got that much time on my hands ;) . I found it here:

http://www2.latech.edu/~acm/HelloWorld.shtml

Jeff, do you want me to post the "wiseguy's" name? Perhaps the voter is trying to send the message "it doesn't matter. just pick one and keep at it."

Eh. It doesn't matter to much.

I also will rant that the following are missing...
Pascal
Modula (or whatever they call it now )
Assembly
Squeak

Then I will rant that the following are missing :) :
Awk
Shell scripting
Perl
Ruby
Tcl/Tk
LISP/Scheme
Haskell/Clean
Forth
Prolog

Granted some of them can't really be used for games, but I'm sure there are some people that would recommend each of them as a first language to learn. Well, maybe not Awk or Shell scripting, and Forth and Prolog are iffy.

(BTW, Squeak is an interpreter for the Smalltalk language.)

[baka!]

Originally posted by OneSadCookie

b'BA@?>=<;:987654321r`oo,llH('&%
ed"c~w|{z9'Z%utsrqponmlkjihgfedc
ba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDC
BA@#>~~;|z8xwvuts10/.nm+*)i'&%fd
"ba`_^]yxwvXWsrqSonmPNjLKJIHGcba
`BA]\[=YXW:8T654321MLKJ,+GFE'CBA
$">~}|{zy7654ts10/o-,+lj(hgfedc!
~}|^]yxwYutsVTpRQPONMihgfHGcbaC_
^]@>Z<;:987SRQP21MLK-IHG*(D&%$#"
!=<;:zy765u321r/.-,+*)iX&%$dS!~}
|{zy\wvutsUDConmlkjihgfedcFa`B1@
/[ZYXWVUTSRQPONM0K-zHGFEDCBA@?>=
<;{j87x543sb0/.-,+*)('&%$#"!b`O{
zyxZIutsrqSBQ@lkjihgIIdcba`B1j


ROTFLOL!!!!! :D

I have GOT to learn Malbolge! That's the coolest thing EVER! ;)

If you want to learn multiple languages, I recommend doing C first, then Java, then Objective-C. You can't really do much Objective-C without knowing C (it was built as an extension to it, after all), and learning Java helps build up a good foundation in object-oriented programming.

Or you could ignore all that and spend the rest of your life trying to write a 3D RPG entirely in Malbolge. :)

[Carlos Camacho]

Perhaps we should require all uDevGame 2003 entries to be written in Malbolge next year then.

[DJBlufire]

Don't they have competitions every year to see who can write their C code in the most craziest/coolest-looking way while still keeping it functional? Think about the Malbolge code block, only arranged so that it looks like something. I remember seeing some really cool entries for this contest... if someone knows what i'm talking about and has the URL, that would be great.

[furballphat]

Originally posted by DJBlufire
Don't they have competitions every year to see who can write their C code in the most craziest/coolest-looking way while still keeping it functional? Think about the Malbolge code block, only arranged so that it looks like something. I remember seeing some really cool entries for this contest... if someone knows what i'm talking about and has the URL, that would be great.

That's the obfuscated C contest. http://www.es.ioccc.org/main.html

[DJBlufire]

Yeah!!! That's the one :)

its pretty funny looking at some of those entries... at least you can piece together what they do if you read them carefully, unlike Malbolge... :)

[Sta7ic]

Start with C++, it's fairly easy, common, and easily interpreted to a few other languages (including Java). Learn others when you can make stuff work well.

[Feanor]

I voted for C/C++. I really couldn't make up my mind, so I went with what I thought offered the best overall tools for making games, given the breadth of choices of environments and packages to go with.

Really I think it doesn't matter too much as long as he has a clear set of goals for what kind of software he wants to make. I can't help but think that learning Basic is a waste of time. I don't think it's that much easier, except in ways which are harmful in the long run. Better to learn to deal with one's own memory management sooner, be very disciplined about it, and get right into learning libraries he'll be using for the rest of his career, if he chooses programming.

I think learning C and GLUT for graphics would be a good combination and get him productive very quickly. OpenGL is excellent for 2D as well as 3D. I know it can be complicated, but one can do a lot with some basic techniques. If he could find a simple front end that added easier texture management and object grouping features without having to mess with the guts, that would make my argument stronger.

--FÎanor

[ededed]

The malbolge code was "heLLo WorLd" was created using a genetric alogrothm and case was ingnored because that made it easier. Basically it does RSA encryption on everyletter of code so that is why it is so hard.

/Developer/Examples/Applescript
A racing game entierly made with applescript.

Sorry about leaving out so many languages but it seems like I cant add more now even though I made the poll.

[Feanor]

I want to know why the numbers don't add up. I'm seeing over 40 votes and yet a total of 30. Did some people vote multiple times?--FÎanor

[OneSadCookie]

It was a check-box poll, so I voted for all the choices I thought were sensible (Java, Python, Metal/TNT from memory).

[Firestarter]

The majority of people seem to think that I should learn C++. That's a rough start. I've had my hands full even with METAL ;).

[ededed]

I am remaining impartial and havent voted but... Learn ObjC next

[Jeff Binder]

Originally posted by Firestarter
The majority of people seem to think that I should learn C++. That's a rough start. I've had my hands full even with METAL ;).

Well, it says C/C++, so some of those people probably think you should learn C, not C++. Having both languages as one option may kind of skew the results. There really should be two separate choices, but it's too late now.