iPhone game development coming

Moderator
Posts: 623
Joined: 2007.09
Post: #16
You have to pay for the developer pack??? Boy, what a let down. (Sorry, but I'm kinda' cheap)

- Lincoln Green
http://www.binkworks.com/
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 608
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #17
Hairball183 Wrote:You have to pay for the developer pack??? Boy, what a let down. (Sorry, but I'm kinda' cheap)
I don't know where you got that idea...
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 320
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #18
So it looks like OpenGL development won't really be possible for a while yet. The simulator will not run OpenGL content, and the iphone software will need to be updated before iphones can run apps natively. Oh well, I'll go back to sleep now.

Chopper, iSight Screensavers, DuckDuckDuck: http://majicjungle.com
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 3,573
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #19
reubert Wrote:So it looks like OpenGL development won't really be possible for a while yet. The simulator will not run OpenGL content, and the iphone software will need to be updated before iphones can run apps natively. Oh well, I'll go back to sleep now.

Aw maaaan! That is a super major let-down. I wonder if it would be possible to set up some kind of get-by simulator in the meantime to get somewhat approximate conditions for game development on the iPhone?
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 916
Joined: 2002.10
Post: #20
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 3,573
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #21
AnotherJake Wrote:... I wonder if it would be possible to set up some kind of get-by simulator in the meantime to get somewhat approximate conditions for game development on the iPhone?

What is it with me quoting myself in this thread for the second time now? Wacko

Anyway, after looking around a bit, it looks like there is some Windows and Linux emulation available [edited out because I'm under NDA] here, using OpenGL ES 1.1. I'm not really sure, but I think that might be a decent approximation of what to expect for the API, but I didn't go so far as to see if I could actually set up an account for the download. I'm not even sure if it'd be worth the trouble, and I don't have Winderz or Linux installed on this machine anyway.

I sure hope Apple intends to include an OpenGL ES emulation in the iPhone simulator.
Quote this message in a reply
Sage
Posts: 1,232
Joined: 2002.10
Post: #22
skyhawk Wrote:be sure to pick up:

http://safari.oreilly.com:80/9780321563835

What makes you think iPhone supports ES 2.0?
Quote this message in a reply
Sage
Posts: 1,232
Joined: 2002.10
Post: #23
AnotherJake Wrote:I sure hope Apple intends to include an OpenGL ES emulation in the iPhone simulator.

How useful do you see that being?

Specifically, if you are writing a interactive application (game) targeting a specific piece of hardware (iPhone), how important to you is optimizing your logic & drawing code to run at the target framerate? How do you expect a simulator environment to compare to the native hardware? What if the simulator is vastly faster than the native hardware? What if it is vastly slower?
Quote this message in a reply
Luminary
Posts: 5,143
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #24
arekkusu Wrote:How useful do you see that being?

Specifically, if you are writing a interactive application (game) targeting a specific piece of hardware (iPhone), how important to you is optimizing your logic & drawing code to run at the target framerate? How do you expect a simulator environment to compare to the native hardware? What if the simulator is vastly faster than the native hardware? What if it is vastly slower?

What is the point of the simulator?

If it's so that people without a device (me) or without access to the $99 "we let you put your apps on your device" program (everyone in every country other than the US, for now) can begin iPhone development, then OpenGL support in the simulator is absolutely critical, and exact performance metrics are less relevant.

If the point of the simulator is to exactly model the behavior of the device, then OpenGL support is obviously very difficult, but one has to ask, why does the simulator exist at all, given the device itself is not hugely expensive, likely to drop in price, and always a more accurate predictor of exact behavior? Can the simulator even come close to this goal if it's running native code, as it appears to?

Personally, given how restrictive Apple is being about letting us test on the actual hardware, I'd like to see OpenGL support in the simulator, even if it just reports the limits of the iPhone hardware but runs on the native GL. Bring up a "performance nothing like the real thing" dialog if you feel the need. At least that'd let us do *something*.
Quote this message in a reply
Sage
Posts: 1,232
Joined: 2002.10
Post: #25
OneSadCookie Wrote:Some notes from a few minutes with the SDK:

Before this goes too much further, everyone please note that the SDK is under NDA. You shouldn't talk about specific contents in a public forum, unless they are things that are obviously already public knowledge (anything you can see on apple.com without logging into ADC and agreeing to the iPhone developer license agreement is fair game.)
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 916
Joined: 2002.10
Post: #26
arekkusu Wrote:This is an example of information that shouldn't be talked about. Particularly because it's incorrect.

Then what is the correct information or where can we find it? Smile
Quote this message in a reply
Sage
Posts: 1,232
Joined: 2002.10
Post: #27
After signing up as an iPhone developer (free, but you have to accept the license agreement) you can read all about it in the graphics section of the iPhone OS Programming Guide.
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 623
Joined: 2007.09
Post: #28
Oh, me. I only got as far as the price tag of the standard program for $99.

- Lincoln Green
http://www.binkworks.com/
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 3,573
Joined: 2003.06
Post: #29
The fact that it uses OpenGL ES was mentioned quite extensively in the public keynote, along with *many* other details. But yeah, it's easy to forget that this is annoyingly still NDA. It seems quite silly to have to be considered being under NDA for the FREE developer account, since virtually ANYONE can get that information, which by common sense makes it publicly available knowledge, but I digress. I did press the button, so I'll leave my complaint at that. Sneaky

arekkusu Wrote:How useful do you see that being?

*Very* useful!

Money is the number one reason. There are many of us who don't have the hardware (which costs $400), and then aren't in the club (which costs another $100), and then the basic phone bill (which costs $480 per year, minimum (as I've heard), times X amount of years, say 3 = $1440). The bottom line is that without an OpenGL ES emulator it could cost me upwards of about $2000 (maybe as little as $1200 over three years, if I juggle the numbers against my existing cell) just to find out if it would be a worthwhile development direction for me to pursue. But I'd like to find out more, and without forking out a fairly hefty wad, that really doesn't look practical for me -- especially considering that I already have an 80 GB iPod and a perfectly good cell phone.

Another angle is that the price to get into iPhone development at this point does not encourage "free". If I have to invest that much to get into it then I would definitely feel more compelled to get a return on that investment.

Of course, this ignores the fact that even if I had a phone to work with right now, it wouldn't have iPhone OS 2.0, and thus could not be used for OpenGL ES development anyway. An OpenGL ES emulator with this SDK would have had us hacking away for the next few months before the release of the software update at the end of June, hitting the ground running. Instead, we only get to sit here and talk about it (and under NDA at that!). Cry

For an OpenGL ES emulator for the iPhone, being API-accurate is very important to me. My own experience over the years playing with OpenGL is learning *how* to use it takes me 99.5% of my time, vs. maybe 0.5% of the time trying to target certain platform performance topics. So performance-accurate: not so important. If it's vastly faster, no problem. Just give me a ball-park estimate of what to expect, like "You can expect to work with 20k polys or less and capabilities of a stripped down rage 128 on a 300 MHz B&W G3", and I'll know what to expect... If it's slower, no biggie either, I'd just be testing scenes with full polys at seconds per frame rather than frames per second, or else having to use extremely low poly counts. I find the "vastly slower" scenario to be somewhat unlikely though. Wink
Quote this message in a reply
Hog
Member
Posts: 151
Joined: 2002.09
Post: #30
Well in that case, how about we share experiences about the inofficial iPhone SDK instead? The toolchain was a bit tedious to install and you may have to sometimes adjust the header files but development with it is manageable. The sample applications i did (even the OpenGL ones) still run on 1.1.4.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  framework for 2d game development? MikeAlive 2 697 Jul 17, 2014 05:39 AM
Last Post: IceD34ler
  3D game development socialrender 4 6,173 Jan 2, 2013 12:50 AM
Last Post: NikG
  Win a copy of: Beginning iPhone 4 Development: Exploring the iOS SDK @iOS_blog 0 3,218 Oct 1, 2011 04:23 AM
Last Post: @iOS_blog
  [Game Engine]Orx coming to iPhone iarwain 6 11,243 May 17, 2011 02:31 PM
Last Post: iarwain
  iphone 4 game development andynov123 2 7,204 Jan 18, 2011 01:27 AM
Last Post: JohnEdward