I Wanna Make A FlatShaded 3D Polygonal World War II Flight Simulator

Hog
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Post: #31
Flat shading is not going to run at an acceptable speed on a Mac SE, you might want to go with wireframe instead. I'm sure i've seen a wireframe application run on a Mac SE sometime, but possibly it didn't have very complex geometry (sort of mostly boxes). I don't recall the name however, have to ask a colleague of mine.
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CaryMG
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Post: #32
NCarter Wrote:... speaking of WWII flight sims over Europe, did you ever see version 2 of Warbirds?
That was all flat shaded, using the old F/A-18 Korea engine.
*drool*
Is that "WarBirds v2.0" or "WarBirds II"?
And I'd love ta play a flatshaded 3D polygonal World War II Europe computer flightsimulator!
You said it wasn't available -- but is it still flown online using Macintosh computers?

NCarter Wrote:What's 'boxmacs'?
Boxmacs are the Macintosh, Macintosh 512, Macintosh 512e, MacPlus, MacintoshSE, MacintoshFS/SE, Macintosh SE/30, Mac Classic, Mac Classic II, Macintosh Color Classic & Macintosh Color Classic II computers.
I call 'em "boxmacs" 'cause that's what they are -- Macintosh computers in a box.


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Post: #33
Nice, I have two of those - an eMac and a Mac Classic.
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CaryMG
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Post: #34
PowerMacX Wrote:Err... I bought ["F/A-18 Hornet"] a long time ago ('97?), and it used to ran OK-ish but not great on my Performa 6400, 180MHz PPC 603e.
The game used a LOT of tricks to even run on that machine ....
I'm trying ta find the newgroup messages where someone asked for a boxmac computer flightsimulator & was recommended both "A-10 Attack!" and "F/A-18 Hornet" specifically saying they ran flawlessy in "System 6".
Just a sec ....
OK, Got 'em !

First, click this > Flatshaded 3D Polygonal BoxMac Flight Simulator Recommendations

Excerpts ....
Pardi 4 -- Aug 11 1997
A little help here.
Until a new purchase is made i'm using a ["Macintosh IIsi"]
Are there any decent flight sims. for an [Macintosh computer with a Motorola 68030 CPU"] ?

1] The Machine -- Aug 11 1997
["F/A 18 Hornet"]* -- Works on a Mac Classic II**! (Tried it myself) Very realistic, pretty, qucik [sic] like a bunny
["HellCats Of The Pacific"]* - Never played it, but I know it works on slow Macs.

2] Mike Ash -- Aug 15 1997
Ooh! Ooh! I have some! Smile
["A-10 Attack!"]*

3] Mike Forman -- Aug 15 1997
["Dogfight City"]*

4] Dr N.C. Eastmond -- Aug 20 1997
["HellCats Of The Pacific"]* - Never played it, but I know it works on slow Macs.
Well, I can tell you that Hellcats is a blast.
... the game is a deadly smooth barrel roll of fun.
Heartily recommended


* - Emphasis mine.
** - The "Macintosh SE/30" & "Macintosh Color Classic II" computers are identical -- except the color. lol

********************************************************************************​***********************************************
Then click this > Flatshaded 3D Polygonal BoxMac Flight Simulator Recommendations2

Excerpts ....
1] Phoebe Graubard --Jan 16 1996
I have been playing ["A-10 Attack"]* on my IIsi [Motorola 68030 CPU] running at 25Mhz**

2] Mr N.C. Eastmond -- Jan 18 1996
Ever tried to run FA-18 and A-10 on a Colour Classic***?
My machine... is a 68030 with 8 Megs of RAM [& a FPU math co-processor] ... and an extended VRAM chip****.
Top of the range stuff here.
[Indeed ! lol -- CaryMG]
["F/A-18 Hornet"]* will load (hell, it'll load on a blinkin' SE/30)

* - Emphasis mine.
** - The "Macintosh SE/30" computer's more powerful than that -- it has a Motorola 68030 33MHz CPU.
*** - The "Macintosh SE/30" is more powerful than the "Macintosh Color Classic" computer -- except for the color. lol
**** - Those're "Macintosh SE/30" specs with just a tad more RAM.

********************************************************************************​************************************
Lastly, click this > Flatshaded 3D Polygonal BoxMac Flight Simulator Recommendations3

Excerpt ....
Allen G. Newman -- Aug 7 1995
By booting from a partition containing System 6.0.8, I can run ["F/A-18 Hornet"]
System 6 boots incredibly fast, and frees up a ton of memory ... to give ALL remaining memory to ["F/A-18 Hornet"]
If your machine will run 6.0.8 I whole-heartedly recommend it for ["F/A-18 Hornet"]




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CaryMG
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Post: #35
akb825 Wrote:I decided to look these up.
(I couldn't find out when HellCats of the Pacific came out).
1991.

akb825 Wrote:The SE-30 came out in 1989.
I highly doubt it could play any of those, since those games were pretty steep with system requirements for the time..
See my "WHOAness !" entry.

akb825 Wrote:I think you should just give up supporting anything below OS 9.
It'll be ore difficult, but it so is my dream ta play a flatshaded 3D polygonal flightsimulator online with a "Macintosh SE/30" computer..


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CaryMG
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Post: #36
blobbo Wrote:... before you can even contemplate completing a flight sim .... You need to fully understand some basics first:

a) What a programming language is.
b) What an API is.
c) How they're related.
d) Basic game theory.
e) 3D Math, Physics.
f) Programatic flight modeling.
kk -- so it's "OS X"/"Unity"/"GarageBand" & "System 6"/C++.API.3D Math & Physics.Programatic Flightmodeling
Is that it?


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CaryMG
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Post: #37
Hog Wrote:Flat shading is not going to run at an acceptable speed on a Mac SE ....
See my "WHOAness!" entry.lol


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Sage
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Post: #38
I just want to point out -- those old games were real-time because the programmers wrote some seriously tight c/asm to push pixels.

If you were to try to do this in a high-level language, without GL, ( e.g., your own primitive rasterizer ) god-help you if you're targeting anything less than a high-end g4.

I know this -- I wrote a software 3d "engine" in college ( in C ), with guarad shading, texturing, lighting, a z-buffer, etc. It required a decent pentium 2 to get a decent framerate even on moderate models.
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Post: #39
This is what I gathered from the links you provided:
System 6 uses very little memory. Since the games in question don't require any of the newer libraries required in System 7, System 6 would be better since you can allocate more memory to the game.

The games will run on an SE/30. However, they mentioned that after 15 minutes of waiting, the game hardly progressed. Even with black and white graphics, it wouldn't be playable. For a Color Classic II, it will run but not too well. They in fact said that in order to get the most out of these games, you'd need an '040 or PPC. This is with probably hundreds of man hours with a large team spent otpimizing assembly for the 68k processors for their graphics engines. I'm sure 90% (maybe even 100%) of the lighting was static. They would have hundreds of little optimizations, a part that can be pre-calculated here, something that doesn't need to be drawn there. Any corner that could be cut would be cut. Even then, it would barely work on an SE/30. This is not something you'll be able to tackle as your first project. You could do something like this for modern computers after doing a few smaller projects and learning the basics first, but not for 16 year old hardware. And for most of the optimizations, you would need to write most your code over again, a lot of it in 68k assembly.
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CaryMG
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Post: #40
akb825 Wrote:The games will run on an SE/30.
However, they mentioned that after 15 minutes of waiting, the game hardly progressed. Even with black and white graphics, it wouldn't be playable.
For a Color Classic II, it will run but not too well.
They in fact said that in order to get the most out of these games, you'd need an '040 or PPC.
This is with probably hundreds of man hours with a large team spent otpimizing assembly for the 68k processors for their graphics engines.
I'm sure 90% (maybe even 100%) of the lighting was static.
They would have hundreds of little optimizations, a part that can be pre-calculated here, something that doesn't need to be drawn there.
Any corner that could be cut would be cut.
Even then, it would barely work on an SE/30.
Allow me to re-iterate ....
*sigh*

akb825 Wrote:You could do something like this for modern computers after doing a few smaller projects and learning the basics first, but not for 16 year old hardware.
I think I'll go the "OS X"/"Unity"/"GarageBand" route lol


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Post: #41
Since you kept on arguing the point, I assumed that you were still adamant on getting the game to run on System 6. My mistake on that part. Smile
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Post: #42
CaryMG: Ok, this is my last post in this thread.

You are being incredibly annoying.

1. Stop quintuple-posting. It's lazy. Move it all into a single post.
2. Start reading. Going from zero coding knowledge to a flight sim that will work in OS 6 is basically impossible. Even the best coders on this board would have a lot of trouble doing it.
3. Start small. Download Unity and try making something in it, rather than continually re-iterating your insistence on persuing an ends that is, in effect, completely unrealistic.

There's a lot of smart people giving you good advice. Go back and read your thread again, and post when you have something to show, or a constructive question.
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Post: #43
To be fair, he said he was going to use Unity on OS X. (maybe read his last post? Sneaky)
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Post: #44
I'm probably going to stop posting here too, maybe even stop reading. The double-triple-quadruple-quintouple posting is getting very irritating. And so are the excessive quotation marks.

Someone called me "slightly harsh" before. Well, now I'm going to go all-out iGame3D on you.

You cannot magically grow these skills. You cannot suddenly become a master of physics, and 3D modeling, and coding, and music making. Each of these by itself would take at least a year's worth of work to master enough to make this kind of game.

If you try to pursue this immediately, as your first project outside of BASIC, you will only end up frustrated. I doubt that at this point you even understand what sort of tool Unity is, what technology it is built on, and what knowledge prerequisites it has. The transition from BASIC to C(++) is rather painful.

Going from BASIC straight to a flight sim is like being a 10-year-old trying to join an NFL team...tomorrow. It simply cannot be done.

If at this point I haven't convinced you, then there is nothing more I can do. Feel free to frustrate yourself.

My web site - Games, music, Python stuff
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Sage
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Post: #45
I've kinda been following this and I wondered something. Even though you (CaryMG) don't seem to have any intention to do so anymore, why did you ever want to support System 6? Seems to me to be as useful as programming TI-82 games Smile.

Anyway, welcome to the forum, good luck on your path to game creation. Again, start small and work your way up. If you take your time, you could probably do this, from scratch, in under a year and a half (assuming you learn as slow as I Rasp). With Unity it should be a bit quicker. I can't wait to see what you come up with.
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