OMG Entries and Online High Scores

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Post: #1
This is illegal according to what I'd consider a standard interpretation of the rules:

Quote:Q. The size limitation is too severe. Can my game transfer/download/stream/etc. additional game assets?
A. Since the focus is on challenging developers to create a great game in a limited size, entries that connect to an outside network, except for allowing for multi-player gaming, will not be allowed.
This means games like "Virus Out" with online high scores would be disqualified. Now, this is ridiculous and probably not intended. I certainly think Virus Out should be a legal entry!

Now, the definition of "multi-player gaming" could be stretched to allow online high scores. It could be said that part of the game is in getting a better score than other people around the world.

This brings up another interesting matter about online high scores. The entry "Pakimono!" in short is about getting photographed by tourists. In addition to a numeric score, it has been rumored that they want to also show the virtual photographs taken by tourists from each game along with the score. This would be just fine in a local environment according to the rules I believe, but I think this should be allowed in an online environment. I'm not sure how to write a rule that says that this is okay. I'm sure there are people who do not agree that it should be allowed. Basically my reasoning to why it's okay is as follows: It's a damn cool while reasonable idea, and it should be one of the goals of contest rules to allow creative, cool ideas.

However, it starts to really blur the line to what "online high scores", "assets", and "multi-player gaming" are.

That is all,
-Jon
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Post: #2
The High Score system in Virus Out shouldn't be causing a problem. By assets I understand resources that are needed to play the game. These include but are not limited to: graphics, sounds, text data, etc..

Putting high scores online is not really something you need to play the game and thus is not an asset. It's just a feature.

This is my opinion ofcourse.

"When you dream, there are no rules..."
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Member
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Post: #3
Some of the original reasons for this rule (as I remember them from past uDevGames). Don't matter to me one way or the other, internet highscores is easily removable before the deadline.
  • Discourage devs from trying to "cheat" the files size limit by downloading assets required for basic play.
  • Increase user experience by not making them sit through a second download
  • Important: iDG hosts the downloads after the contest, so game which *rely* on internet content could break if the devs remove the online content
  • Important: iDG claims the right to resell the submitted entries later down the road, and if the game depends on the content it may well break when Carlos actually decides to ship a compilation CD

As far as I'm concerned, if an internet/network feature is implemented in such a way that the game is still playable if the service goes away, it meets the above criteria.

Of course, we'll see what the offical word is. This just proves why it is important to put your entry up early so we can work through any issues like this Blink
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Luminary
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Post: #4
Personally, I'd say that since those features aren't transferring assets, they are multiplayer gaming of a kind, and therefore perfectly legal Smile
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Member
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Post: #5
In the Pakimono! case I think the idea was to have one player's photgraphs been seen by other player's while playing the game / on the high score table.

How about saying that the game must be playable without any further downloads - say a game is not _allowed_ to do further downloads of assets (Pakimono example: highscore with screenshot) just limits the potential of the games created. to the pre-web days.

Nicholas Francis
http://www.otee.dk
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Joined: 2002.12
Post: #6
As long as the entry runs 100% if there is not an internet connection then it should be okay in my mind.

Requiring an internet connection being present to play the game should be against the rules for this contest.

The question is, are any of the developers willing to risk the fact that the judges and voters may be trying the games whilst travelling on the train to work?
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Ulognep
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Post: #7
KittyMac Wrote:
  • Important: iDG claims the right to resell the submitted entries later down the road, and if the game depends on the content it may well break when Carlos actually decides to ship a compilation CD

Am I to understand that this means iDG will be making a profit off the submitted entries? I hope you will be compensating the developers (who worked hard and were not paid for their time) when their games are distributed in this manner.

Quite frankly, hearing that a game I enter may be sold by iDG somewhere down the line makes me NOT want to submit my game at all.
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Luminary
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Post: #8
iDG has never made a profit on anything Rasp

If Carlos does decide to sell a compilation CD for example, it might go some way toward recouping some of the costs of running the competition and the site.

Remember, the version you submit to the competition will be free anyway, so you lose nothing, whatever Carlos decides to do with it afterwards.
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Member
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Post: #9
Look at it this way. These games that are entered should be entered as demos basically. Something that will be available as a promotion. In the end, it's a way for iDG to help pay for the service of the contest itself in the first part and also promote your game. Win-win in my book.

That is, IF it's ever done. Honestly, the way this contest is going, I think it would be a good idea. Smile There's some great work coming out of this.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." - Wizard of Oz
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Founder
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Post: #10
>Personally, I'd say that since those features aren't transferring assets, they are >multiplayer gaming of a kind, and therefore perfectly legal
Yes, that is the right way to think.

>How about saying that the game must be playable without any further downloads >- say a game is not _allowed_ to do further downloads of assets
I thought it said that, but if it is not so clear, we can re-word it.

>iDG has never made a profit on anything
Tell me about it! 1998 -> 2004 we have been funded by my wallet. Wink

>If Carlos does decide to sell a compilation CD for example, it might go some >way toward recouping some of the costs of running the competition and the
>site.
Exactly.

>These games that are entered should be entered as demos basically. >Something that will be available as a promotion. In the end, it's a way for iDG >to help pay for the service of the contest itself in the first part and also >promote your game. Win-win in my book.
Exactly the way to think of it. Ulognep initial comment makes it look as though "iDevGames will take the games that everyone works hard on, see that the devs never get anything for their troubles, and laugh all the way to the bank."
As others, who have been here for some time have noted, that is not the case. Consider that in the future, if we do place all the games on a CD, for easy distribution, it is a way to wet the appetite of the gamer to visit your web site and place an improved version, a sequel, your other games, etc etc. This is not very different from a CD issued by Inside Mac Games. (Another good study case, if you haven't been in this community for awhile, is to look at GLGolf. A game entered in uDevGames, and now doing well as shareware.)

Cheers,

Carlos A. Camacho,
Founder
iDevGames
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Moderator
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Post: #11
Carlos Camacho Wrote:>Personally, I'd say that since those features aren't transferring assets, they are >multiplayer gaming of a kind, and therefore perfectly legal
Yes, that is the right way to think.

>How about saying that the game must be playable without any further downloads >- say a game is not _allowed_ to do further downloads of assets
I thought it said that, but if it is not so clear, we can re-word it.
...
Consider that in the future, if we do place all the games on a CD, for easy distribution, it is a way to wet the appetite of the gamer to visit your web site and place an improved version, a sequel, your other games, etc etc.

On a related note, how do you feel about Java Web Start? Basically, the game is automatically downloaded the first time the player double clicks the "game" file. I mention this because if you ever want to bundle all the entries a JWS game may not work (say, if the link it points to becomes a 404).

Edit: BTW, the entry that motivated my post is Boxing Fever
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Post: #12
Any idea even where Boxing Fever even caches its data?
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Founder
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Post: #13
>On a related note, how do you feel about Java Web Start?
Frankly, I want to see all games work like this. "You click download, uncompress, double click icon, play." I think that is the way that most Mac consumers expect their games to be as well. As for this case, I'm no Java expert but it seems to me that making a JAR file available for download would be the ideal way, contest wise, and Mac gamer wise.

>I mention this because if you ever want to bundle all the entries a JWS game may not >work (say, if the link it points to becomes a 404).
Yes, it is a little of the reason why we have that streaming rule. People's websites change all the time. If we want to be able to show off the game's from previous years at iDevGame, it becomes more and more difficult as websites move/go under, etc. In the end, I get a ton of "The game doesn't work" or "The download link is not working", so we'd be forced to remove it, to reduce stress. I'll most likely be more strict next year to reduce such occurences.

Cheers,

Carlos A. Camacho,
Founder
iDevGames
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cimot
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Post: #14
just a bit intermezo with Java Webstart in general..(not about Boxing Fever)
If players double click the jnlp file.. the Jar(s) automatically downloaded to caches.. since the src and other assets it's in the Jar(s).. no need to connect to internet just to play the game(if not online game).. if you can find where the chaces in Mac you will see the Jar(s) ..and able to extract it to see what's in it.
I'm sure if the bundle idea come true..then any developers using JWS will glad to distribute in Jar
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Post: #15
cimot Wrote:if you can find where the chaces in Mac you will see the Jar(s) ..and able to extract it to see what's in it.
I'm sure if the bundle idea come true..then any developers using JWS will glad to distribute in Jar

As I already mentioned on the Boxing Fever thread, the cached files are located at this path:

~/Library/Caches/Java Web Start/cache/http/Djacimot.goldenstudios.or.id/

I don't know if there is an easy way the bundle those files in an Application bundle. The Java Web Start does let you create a bundle, but it doesn't copy any of the cached jars to it, the resulting application is more like a proxy, and weights just a few Kb. Perhaps you could try asking at the java-dev list in Apple's mailing list? Here is a search result from that thread: http://search.lists.apple.com/?q=web+sta...l=java-dev
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