the other half?

Az0167
Unregistered
 
Post: #31
I have been lurking for some time now looking for projects with audio needs. I create custom sound effects for games and if those games are on the mac, even better! All the programming stuff is cool though. Artists like to call that the "boring stuff." Smile
Quote this message in a reply
trip
Unregistered
 
Post: #32
extra stuff.
http://www.spiderland.org/breve/index.php

Why can that not become an app ? It has full interactivety and LOTs of ooodells of example code to build from to make a real app.

It has particles of which a slider interface could be added. Bone joint system of which a rigg system could be added, and other stuff.

The apple developer tools has some shader creation and reading tools, even has a quake model reader and animation player, just need a keyframe and dynamic spring chain system. We have all of the pieces even code for all of it. Just need the coders and the thinkers and workers.

I am always told it is not the money offered but the challenge that is at hand. Well I am here to issue the challenge ! Make an app that Flows with the user! Built from apple tools only for apple tools, no cross platform cripples, ALL Apple power. HAve it all ready as a small beta program before tiger is out, and when tiger is out BOY oh BOY will that add to the happy colors and drama of the app. Blow Blender Lightwave and MAYA out of the water! Make it fun to play in 3D as it should be from the start.
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 381
Joined: 2002.08
Post: #33
Az0167 Wrote:I have been lurking for some time now looking for projects with audio needs. I create custom sound effects for games and if those games are on the mac, even better! All the programming stuff is cool though. Artists like to call that the "boring stuff." Smile

Az, if you are looking for a project, I am dying to get some help with audio for my tennis game.

http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

Please e-mail me at tennis@karlbecker.com - I can't seem to be able to email you from the board here.

Thanks,
Karl

KB Productions, Car Care for iPhone/iPod Touch
@karlbecker_com
All too often, art is simply the loss of practicality.
Quote this message in a reply
karolos
Unregistered
 
Post: #34
Hi guys

I am actually an professionnal illustrator-layoutmaker (almost photoshop). This thread is quite symbolic I guess. Thirstable, there was a very interesting question about "what the artists seem so few..". After that, most of the replies start to speak about this new free app for 3D models coming, yeah really nice for programmers, so the thread came to be completely loosing the question... So I can speak about my little experience :

I have tried few months ago to ask someone to help me making an adventure game (not 3D, I most say, I don't like to use 3D, it is a choice). Even I was thinking to pay someone to do codes. I tried to found someone. The design document was ready, the storyline was ready, almost 3 level of the game (art work-drafts) were done, but it seem it was not enough.

So I started to learn programming. My skill is so poor that I tryed TNTbasic to start. After weeks of making tutorials, I never found the way to see that I will be enough good to make a Space Invader, and of course, asking helping was not very positive, even I was feeling that "it is not your domain dumnie". May be I was very unlucky.

Be "artist" is not necessary a good programmer and almost they prefer to do where they are the best. Some people have the skill for both side (Danlab and Rocco are real good examples in two different ways). Programmers seem considering "pain" to get some graphic stuff. It is quite a shame to read this Sneaky. I understand a programmer enjoy to code, but why not thinking about the improvment, that artist also enjoy to found the best solution to make a nice visual game too ? Where is the oportunity for an artist, if everything is already thought and to be consedering like a pain?

There is also one point that could clearified some situation. Most of the sharewares I saw don't gave a very enthousiast feeling to make graphics. I don't blame programmers for that, but is the masses of tetris-Invaders-Collapse-Tron-FPS make artist concerned about making a new clone ? I think they need to be also interested about project that could challenge their skill, be original and creative for them.

Ok, now I can go to my bunker (+1200 mass proctection) Ninja LOL
Quote this message in a reply
Sage
Posts: 1,482
Joined: 2002.09
Post: #35
I'm not quite sure if I follow where you are going, but you seem to be saying the exact same thing that a lot of people (including me) feel, but from the other direction. I'd love to be able to make fancy amazing graphics, but I couldn't make something look good if I tried. (which I have)

Another problem is that the programmers have their own ideas about what they want to make for a game. So you have artists looking for a programer to work on their game, and programmers looking for artists to work on their game. To complicate things even worse, a lot on both sides really only want to do it as a hobby, and not make money off of it. While not a problem directly, it means that they aren't going to want to give in on their ideas to work on someone elses.

Assuming that this is true, it makes the "help wanted/offered" forum somewhat not useful. I think that's why it's usually so inactive. I keep thinking that I'd like to join the inkubator project because it's a project starting from scratch so it can be partly what I want, but I'm already not to keen on the project that was voted.

Scott Lembcke - Howling Moon Software
Author of Chipmunk Physics - A fast and simple rigid body physics library in C.
Quote this message in a reply
trip
Unregistered
 
Post: #36
I have to add stuff sorry Rasp.

Modeling is just moveing polygons around. We have those already. Blender, cheetah3d, Wings3d. What is needed now is some robust animation tools with the mac user friendly interface.
With that said. Is there any progress with this project? I allways hate it when someone announces a new software and then lets it slide for months without updates. If it was a company then it is standard for companies to do that, but when it is one single person or team they should at least have a little blog where we can read and give feedback on ideas for this kind of thing.
Or hey a demo would be nice. Rasp
Quote this message in a reply
trip
Unregistered
 
Post: #37
wat happened to this project Sad I want to see happy power Grin
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #38
One of the reasons projects slide is often the project reaches a peak of production and
interest and becomes all work and no play. It is one thing to create something new,
and entirely something else to poke and prod it into perfection.

Think of the joy of conception (the act of it Rasp ), what fun, then carrying of child for
nine months (yea, nausea, bloating, all that), then the big Wooohooo A baby birth
celebration. Fast forward to that child being an annoying moody rebellious teenager.

Thats an analogy for developing projects of any kind, the greater the ambition the
greater the number of problems to solve arise. Without a support system, ie, testers,
users, money, an ocassional new idea, someone with the timely answers to reload
your brain ammo in the heat of battle against the bugs etc, things fall apart.

Like loving a woman, not every project is as sexy and wondefully charming after six
intense weeks and other things like, a vacation, a social life, other women, other
people's games start to look real good.

Some people will work a project to either the death of the project or themselves, and
others won't get past the first napkin doodle, and some others know when to say
"well I've learned what I needed to from this endeavour, time for grander vistas".

I think writers, programmers, artists, and musicians can relate to these statements.

I'm guessing Trip was asking about Karl's 3D app, I think Karl is working on a
udevgames entry, so I'd guess he's proving his modeler works by working on that
entry. Only by trying things in real world use do you find things like "oh that field is
totaly causing me repetitive stress injury, needs automation!"

I know I've only found 20 or 30 bugs or iritating anomalies when I thought for sure
things were ready for other people to use the thing, I've put it on my server, and told
someone to get the first download, before the transfers done there's already trouble. Cry

Developer blogs with or without feedback are actually a cool thing. Its really better
than just getting posts buried in the forum itself. And really beats going from
developer website to developer website trying to find out what the community is up to.

I know idevgames downtime, and the loss of my dev diary here, sucked a lot of the
joy out of my project. The "I better update my diary so people don't think I'm a lazy
son-of-a-mac" thought helped motivate me. I think I'll go read the pdf for laughs now.
Quote this message in a reply
trip
Unregistered
 
Post: #39
hmm. as I see it ( yes everything you said was true) but as I see it lots of projects go ker splat because the developer does not share enough test builds for feedback and support. AS THEY GET INTO A FUNK that keeps them trying to make something work no matter what before they are happy enough to share.. This leads to lack of intreast from the world and they then wonder why no one cares anymore.

Also I saw this coming anyway. Makeing a project crossplatform will kill any life blood in developers, cause NOTHING will ever work corectly in all places. I should know, blender is still an ugly mess. And I am waiting a YEAR now for my Zbrush OSX 2.0 version that I paid for a year ago. Sad

I said from the start it should just be OSX code that way all of the time could be spent making it really fast and powerful on the platform instead of trying to make it work everywhere at supar features and speed.

Sad
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #40
trip Wrote:hmm. as I see it ( yes everything you said was true) but as I see it lots of projects go ker splat because the developer does not share enough test builds for feedback and support.

This is definately NOT the case. Over 1,000 downloads of the first and second developments of iGame3D. Feedback from less than 10 people.
50 people sign up at the forum, no more than six actuall posted anything.
Users ask "will it support lightwave", no it didn't, but when it does, do they say "wow thanks", or test the damn thing and let us know if their models work? No they don't.

80,000 Downloads of Antack, feedback from maybe 10 people tops.

Ask the Midnight Mansion dev about having a beta test list, lots of sign ups, lots of "here's a game go play", and feedback is few and far between for two years.

Check the udevGame entry threads. 460 forum users, maybe 20 give feedback to a game TOPS. Someone the other day was mentioning they posted about there game and got NO replies.

The trouble finding artists is equaled mirrored in the trouble finding people who give a damn in the first place.
Quote this message in a reply
trip
Unregistered
 
Post: #41
igame3d Wrote:This is definately NOT the case. Over 1,000 downloads of the first and second developments of iGame3D. Feedback from less than 10 people.
50 people sign up at the forum, no more than six actuall posted anything.
Users ask "will it support lightwave", no it didn't, but when it does, do they say "wow thanks", or test the damn thing and let us know if their models work? No they don't.

80,000 Downloads of Antack, feedback from maybe 10 people tops.

Ask the Midnight Mansion dev about having a beta test list, lots of sign ups, lots of "here's a game go play", and feedback is few and far between for two years.

Check the udevGame entry threads. 460 forum users, maybe 20 give feedback to a game TOPS. Someone the other day was mentioning they posted about there game and got NO replies.

The trouble finding artists is equaled mirrored in the trouble finding people who give a damn in the first place.

Ya very true, very true. But then what keeps it all going ? Why do we still have programs and programers? Something is missing in these words of explanation. Because it would all be not if this were all true.
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #42
Some peopel make small apps, some people are just passionate about what they do, other apps have a business market that needs to be filled and will result in the all mighty dollar.

Ya gotta admit, some games you try and some apps you try, you sometimes think: "What the hell were they thinking?!?!"
Quote this message in a reply
trip
Unregistered
 
Post: #43
igame3d Wrote:Ya gotta admit, some games you try and some apps you try, you sometimes think: "What the hell were they thinking?!?!"

Hell ya! I mean it's like we have 20 something HTML webkit text edit apps but not one basic WYSIWYG cocoa powered html edit app/ ugh.

Ninja

What more can be done ? I really wanted to find a developer to work on some cocoa 3d playful stuff. Motion is out now and it has really great 2d effects but no 3d even though it requires such a HUGE fat card it has no Z dimension stuff.

I am trying to learn myself but it will take time. sigh
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #44
OT since this thread is about "Where be all the artists/musicians?"
But why don't you start a running thread in general programming and post what you are attempting as you go? Maybe something will develop as you progress with your learning.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply