Online Game Idea

w_reade
Unregistered
 
Post: #31
I have Blood Omen 2 on the Xbox; I think it's on the PS2 as well. Starts off with you waking up weak in Sarafan-controlled Meridian, and pretty much carries on from there - drink blood, learn abilities, etc. I enjoyed it, but I never played the prequel or either Soul Reaver, so I can't say how similar they are.
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #32
Right there were legal issues surrounding Kain and the Soul Reaver things, and thus different names. I forget which I played on PS, but it sucked..pardon the pun.

Damn the wake up weak plot's been used, damn damn damn. hmm Take the Anne Rice route: "Gay vampire cruising for love"? nah. Developing bad guys as protaganist has its own set of trouble, no wonder most games are cliche good vs bad.

iGhoul is still in the "what works?" stages, that demo is just one of the tests. That build of the application also has some different collission issues and probably a memory bug thats not in the latest. Haven't heard from Tobi in 3 days so I'm sure he'll resurface with another build and some new scripts and events..in 2 or 3 hours. Hopefully the ability to grab weapons easier, and drop them. In the latest version I have to run around the house, then around the well, grab the sword then kill the guy with the axe, going directly for the sword is 99% death by beheading by that guy...evil.

I'm not sure which cow is in there, I had to kill about 1,000 polygons from the first one, and never got around to putting bones back into it, earlier it used to walk around and provide a snack for iGhoul, there will be more livestock wandering around later on, and we plan on having them provide less nourishment, that fades quicker and gets you sick when it runs out. I also want to have bulls charge, horses kick, and dogs bite, at least until you have power over beasts.

You won't start in the village, as you do now, more out in the darkness, on the run, being hounded. People won't be wandering the streets like so much buffet. But during testing its better to just throw them all in one spot instead of walking for 10 minutes to get to that one meal or axe in the face.

LordViking you are definately on the path of Persistant Online world ala MMORPG. Try to re-focus it all into single player and NPC terms.

Whats the real purpose of the game? Building a little town, or Role-Playing monsters, or role playing average people in a world of monsters. In order to make a MMORPG you have to have subscribers to pay for the dev costs, and the servers, noone will give you $8 a month to be stuck as a fisherman, or lumberjack, they want to level up, become Lord of the realm and all that. They will all want to be vampire's or Mayor's of a town with their own small militia to control.

As NPC's these characters could work interestingly enough, as food, and as dangers to the Vampire. You might chew up a young lass at point A on the lake, and the fisherman spots you and goes running from point H across the lake, having the mob know your where abouts will not bode well, the chase is on!

The LumberJack might by mighty skilled at throwing his axe, and losing your head never makes for a good night.

The blacksmith might "level up" over time to devise hideous traps to ensnare you. Or maybe he happens to own a certain "Mystic Hammer" that calls lightning.

The "prosperity" of a town could lead them hiring "professional" vampire hunters, bad news for you, especially if they happen to be mystics or werewolves or Dr. Von AtomoStein and his UltraViolet Golem.

There has to be a consideration for how "expensive" the game play is in terms of dev time, graphic and sound assets, proccessing power, how much fun it would be for the player, how long you can sustain plot and gameplay.

Seriously, there can't be much fun in being a blacksmith waiting around for people to buy silver bullets from you.

So focus on single player, when the game kicks ass wildly in single player, then see what points of it scream for multiplayer gaming: action, excitement, progressions.
At the vary least the single player levels provide the backbone for what becomes a multiplayer experience.

You will note the majority of Multiplayer games pretty much just involve players killing each other outright, in under 30 minutes. The MMORPG's are an entirely different, and completely expensive beast. Best to keep your eye on the attainable.
Quote this message in a reply
w_reade
Unregistered
 
Post: #33
The cow's just beyond the fenced enclosure, it just sits there and provides an infinite snack (quite nice having my health go off the top of the screen Wink) or an invulnerable axe target. I had been wondering whether it was a deliberate "cattle" reference... I'm sure they're fairly standard components of vampire legend.

The only issue with iGhoul you haven't mentioned is the controls; my instinct tells me that when I press W, I should walk away from the camera, and this player-relative movement confuses me. Just a personal preference though.

About Blood Omen 2, the gameplay seemed pretty similar to what I saw of one of the Soul Reavers (fairly average 3rd-person fighting) but the story kept me going to the end, and the ability to pick people up and decapitate them with huge swords kept me entertained during the dull bits.

On to LordViking's one: I completely agree that making an MMORPG is a no-no, but I'm wondering if this might be the sort of thing that'd work well as a MUD or MUSH(?) or something? I've never MUDded so I'm not too sure what it actually involves, but I have a vague feeling it might be the sort of environment that'd let the scenario develop and potentially flourish (perhaps by attracting players with less of a hack-slash-level-up attitude). David, were you thinking of something related?

However, I also agree that a single-player game with interesting NPCs would probably be the best way forward.
Quote this message in a reply
LordViking
Unregistered
 
Post: #34
SP-wise, the game is just gonna be a small village. All occupations are filled by NPCs. The village will rest inside the ruined, walled in lands of a castle. Most walls are crumbled around them. Some towers maintained for lookouts. The castle will be in good condition, no humans go there because of vampires. Beasts will come out of the forest to threaten the town. You start life in the human "campaign" earning money with simple jobs. Becoming a lumberjack increases axe skills, you may encounter beasts, fishermen's catches are sold at the local market. Then you go out hunting for beasts/vamps and earn bounties posted on the cityhall door, i.e. Goody Flanders claims she was raped by a vampire, kill the vamp. Of course, she then may have a half-vamp kid which threatens the towns well being.
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 2003.04
Post: #35
Quote:Originally posted by w_reade
The only issue with iGhoul you haven't mentioned is the controls; my instinct tells me that when I press W, I should walk away from the camera, and this player-relative movement confuses me. Just a personal preference though.


Yeah, we will put the Q and E key camera rotation back in, already on the list of to-do's. We've experimented with a number of camera controls, those just got lost in the last edition. Earlier we had a much more RPG ish camera, and the rotation was very cinematic, taking a wide sweep of the area while on orbit back to the vampire, but took up a bit of time if you get a too far away.

I'd really don't want the camera to be static behind the vampire, that would be boring. Another option is camera hot spots, but as everyone knows, that can be the weakest link in a game when not done right.

The cow is much more amusing when it walks around and drops dead after a few bites. Adding a few more and chasing them out into the darkness is down right hilarious.
There is a thin line between humor and horror.


I was think MUD for LV's game idea too, but it seems very tedious. "Cut wood", "Cut wood", "Cut Wood", "you encounter a WereSquirrel", "use axe on WereSquirrel", "you do 10 damage" "WereSquirrel attacks, giving you 10 damage"-- very 1990's

Most of the MUD communities are already abandoning their text adventure worlds for EverQuest and the like.

LV's game sounds very standard "micro-manage the village" simulation, with the RPG twist, but were is the compelling element, whats going to draw people to the game?

What is the actual game play? Point click at a tree, cut it down, next tree, etc, point at the village and click to go home? Is the player managing multiple NPCs?
Does he have to scramble from one side of the map to another to find out whats happening?
Are the monsters random or does the plot develop on a set course toward a certain destination?

In MMORPG's its endless quests so that people with little to no lives can boast in that online world "I"m level 500, feel my wrath newb!"

OK suns about about to come up, must hide in my futon.
Quote this message in a reply
LordViking
Unregistered
 
Post: #36
Quote:Originally posted by igame3d

What is the actual game play? Point click at a tree, cut it down, next tree, etc, point at the village and click to go home? Is the player managing multiple NPCs?
Does he have to scramble from one side of the map to another to find out whats happening? Are the monsters random or does the plot develop on a set course toward a certain destination?


For the Single Player Redesign (SPR), the only human job to have is bounty hunter/vampire hunter. Lumberjacking and other economic functions of the town will be governed soley by NPCs. The plot will be developed over a series of missions, given by checking on the door of the City Hall. i.e. Clean out Location A of monsters 50gold, Slay Vampire Q 2500gold. There will also be random events that occur as you walk around town. Since the SPR now takes place within the crumbling extreme outer walls of a castle (Crude Map coming soon!), there are towers still remaining with NPC guards. The tower guard will scream and shout and ring a bell, and a little light will go off or something in the direction you should walk to (Let's say there is a compass, and a little red light appears in the direction you should walk in). The NPC will scream something like, 5 vampires have appeared at the walls! By saying it screams, it may just have a text bubble or something.

The economic and government parts of the game will be undercut in the SPR because those are dependent on multiple supporting characters and actual players with different agendas to alter and change the game universe

For the final Online Game project, i.e. much in the future. I plan on having multiple towns, regional play like SimCity 4, specializing in different commodities, the prices of which will fluctuate due to random events and/or commodity trading between towns, buy low sell high, if you are doing well at keeping monsters from attacking your lumberjacks, the price of lumber will go down because you'll have a surplus, since this would make some people let the monsters kill their Ljs the price of wood will be fairly low to begin with, so there will be less profit in wood trading. Plus wood is necessary for the town to grow in size, and the bigger the town, the more commodities it can trade. Price fluctuation can exist within the town for the SPR, but to a lesser extent since the player may not be able to travel to different towns. Since each town would require about the same amount of design/programing time that the first one would. We could have them as just places in the SPR, somewhere that exists but the player cant travel to.

For the SPR we may just want to keep it a simple 2D game. Maybe not. Since the SPR is slowly turning into more of a proof of concept type game, we might just want to keep it simple. But the final stage Online Game will be 3d, no matter what...but that could be years away.
Quote this message in a reply
LordViking
Unregistered
 
Post: #37
Just by "show of hands," who is currently interested in programing some of the ideas thus far. And if you are interested in the ideas but dont have enough info to start programming, but you'd still like to help, what kind of info do you need?

Edit: I am also currently working on a Bryce version of the SPR map. To help others picture the world I am imagining.
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 450
Joined: 2003.08
Post: #38
Quote:Originally posted by LordViking
Yeah, I had thought of humans as food and nothing more. But the problem is, if the human is a player and they get fed on constantly, they will get angry and not play anymore. If we had plenty of NPC people running around, then that would work just fine.
To address the idea of integral players going offline, I thought about that during dinner tonight. We could have them replaced by an NPC when they're gone. So that the economy could, in esscence, keep going. The NPC that replaced the player can do everything the player can, following a specific set of rules, like a blacksmith NPC will remain in shop all day and night and smith for the duration of time that the player is gone. The player's character will recieve no profit for the blacksmith NPC when the player is offline.

Couldn't there be more thean one blacksmith etc.? Also, if you are making a town for practice, make it 2d at first, then upgrade. Those are just some ideas.

Alex
Quote this message in a reply
LordViking
Unregistered
 
Post: #39
good idea with 2d...makes life simpler if all we're doing is testing.
There could be numerous people per 1 occupation. But one idea troubles me, who would want to be a blacksmith? Next game from Maxis, SimForge...all of 2 copies sold. Making swords all day would be boring. Please help me find a way to rectify this problem, and if possible, keep the idea of professions.
Quote this message in a reply
Moderator
Posts: 365
Joined: 2002.04
Post: #40
Quote:Originally posted by LordViking
But one idea troubles me, who would want to be a blacksmith? Next game from Maxis, SimForge...all of 2 copies sold. Making swords all day would be boring.

How about this: a player can learn blacksmith skills, but doesn't have to spend all their time blacksmithing... they can go out adventuring as well. While they're away from the forge, an NPC (their wife/husband/kid/familiar) handles the shop so that potential customers can always buy their wares. Actually, it could be interesting to provide every player with an NPC companion who deals with all the boring repetitive stuff so the player can get on with doing something interesting.

For someone to want to spend a lot of their time making swords, the process of forging new weapons would have to be interesting and profitable. You would probably need to have a blacksmithing subgame where you have to do things like heat the metal to the right temperature, drop it in the water at the right time and so on.

BTW, sorry, there's no way I can help with your project, but I'm happy to discuss gameplay ideas on this forum!

Neil Carter
Nether - Mac games and comic art
Quote this message in a reply
chronodragon
Unregistered
 
Post: #41
Lord Viking, if you are interested, we are creating a Flash game engine for 2D turn-based strategy games. Your idea sounds interesting to me, and I think this engine fits all your needs if you low down your requirements a bit... just like getting rid of 3D, massively multiplayer and real-time Huh

As a background, months ago somebody from spain contacted me to create an online economy/strategy game. He had a complete design document, and that let me start creating the game. While developing I realized that this could be ANY strategy game, all we need would be a scripting language to define a different set of rules and elements.

The idea of our project is to open a website, and place this engine online to host several strategy games, or branches of the same game. For example, you could have a game with two different mechanisms for the economics, or the same game logic in three different ages.

We completed the graphical engine, and now we are working on the logic engine. The scripting language works really good, even for Flash standards, and we are on the process of feeding the instruction set. Here is a previous version of the map editor:
http://www.teleportmedia.com/conquista/Editor.html

All I need from you is a design document. Interested?

-Marco
Quote this message in a reply
LordViking
Unregistered
 
Post: #42
By design doc do you mean scripting language and set of rules? I have no idea how to do that. I am not a programmer.
Quote this message in a reply
Member
Posts: 81
Joined: 2002.12
Post: #43
You guys really think this idea can hold water? Not trying to down this guy, but we know we've got plenty of these kinds of messages. He seems to have no programming experience. Yet this guy seems actually convincing and seems to know what he's doing, from a design perspective. Smile

I myself have lots of designs but haven't been ready to share them with anybody. (They're more like a business plan to me. My dream is creating my own game company to develop my own games. Rolleyes ) But since you're open about your ideas, props to ya, and good luck with this project. You seem to know how to get your ideas out and communicate them. Just choose the right people and create a good team. Hopefully we'll see it succeed, but we've seen more failures for big projects like this one.

A design doc, is well, more like the actual plans from a design perspective. A simple Word document will do. It should explain the story, the characters, the objects, the way the story will go, etc.

Oh yeah, and everybody that says "I want to make a MMORPG," read this thread, learn from it, and then give us an actual decent plan like this one!

I can't help with any programming, but I can give you emotional support Grin Very promising project indeed.
Quote this message in a reply
chronodragon
Unregistered
 
Post: #44
I recomend you to read "You Got Game!" series at the end of Game Design section in this page:

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/list.asp?categoryid=23

Gives a lot of inspiration. Also the design document described in those articles is intended for any kind of game. If you want somebody to create your game, you will have to write down a design, otherwise all the ideas will get scrambled, losing the goals of the project, and making it impossible to finish. From my own experience, without a design developers and designers get into an ethernal loop of brilliant ideas that will take to nothing.

Quote:Originally posted by LordViking
By design doc do you mean scripting language and set of rules? I have no idea how to do that. I am not a programmer.


It's simple. All you need is to define the characters, buildings, items, etc. and writing down the way they work with other elements, to simulate the enviroment you want in the game. You could use this layout:

Character:
- Property 1: initial value
- Property 2: initial value
- ...
- Property n: initial value
Rules:
- Action 1: explain
- Action 2: explain
- ...
- Action 3: explain

For example:
Vampire:
- Team: unknown
- Health: 100
- Power: 10
- Wings: no
- Blood: 0
Rules:
- Create this character: set the Team to the player's team.
- Play it's turn: decrease Blood 1 point. If Blood is less than 0, decrease its Health 1 point. If Health is less than 1 destroy the vampire.
- Move the vampire along the map: the vampire can walk on the floor. If it has wings can also fly over the buildings, trees and other characters.
- Suck that delicious blood (target: Villager, Cat, Dog, Horse): Takes 1 vitaly point from target.
- Transform: Switch the value of Wings (yes/no).
...

Hehe, well, it's getting too long to finish this example, but you might have got the idea. As you can see it's a long task, but nobody said it would be easy. Anyway, using this approach gives almost all the information to the programmer. Since these games are mostly statistical, you can test your design by playing it on paper in a "computarized" way (operating with the rules as they are, without making any suppositions), even with other people, saving a lot of time of development.

Some texts should be added to the design about how the vampire looks, as a reference to the artists, and some other to show the total view of the game.

What do you think? Smile

-Marco
Quote this message in a reply
LordViking
Unregistered
 
Post: #45
I'll work up a set of rules for the economy, character development is a bit too hard at the moment, I need to put some more thought into it, but my economy ideas are ready for application. I'll put some work in the doc this weekend.
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Game Idea - "Dreamscape" soundguru 5 8,822 Dec 18, 2011 05:13 PM
Last Post: ipeku
  Idea Needed - Mech Game carmine 25 19,796 Jul 10, 2011 10:30 PM
Last Post: GordonCSA
  Help to make an online text-based rpg game just_gabe 0 4,916 Dec 6, 2009 04:13 PM
Last Post: just_gabe
  Game Idea Wiki Proposal mikey 9 6,929 Jul 22, 2009 10:05 AM
Last Post: FlamingHairball
  A CRAZY game idea! stevejohnson 12 8,425 Jan 28, 2006 04:55 AM
Last Post: Marjock